003: Mastering Marketing: Unleashing Uncommon Strategies for Trust-Building and Result-Driven Success w/ Jody Jelas

Are you ready to unlock the secrets of marketing success and take your business to new heights? Join us on the Paid To Create podcast as we dive into the world of effective marketing strategies with Jody Jelas, the mastermind behind Funnel Builders. With over 23 years of experience in web design and coaching, Jody shares her insider knowledge on how to maximize your marketing efforts and establish trust with your clients.

In this power-packed episode, you'll discover the importance of thorough preparation and research, the art of results-based marketing, and the game-changing impact of client referrals. Get ready to explore the challenges of entrepreneurship, the power of delegation, and the mindset shifts that lead to long-term success. Jody's unique insights, combined with her energetic and engaging style, will keep you captivated from start to finish.

Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, this episode is a goldmine of actionable tips and strategies. Uncover the secrets to setting clear goals, harnessing your strengths, and delivering content with confidence. Discover how to cultivate an entrepreneur mindset, prioritize effectively, and create transparent relationships with your clients.

Join us now and tap into Jody's wealth of experience as she reveals the keys to marketing success in the modern business landscape. Don't miss out on this valuable resource - tune in to the Paid To Create podcast and revolutionize your marketing approach today!

Transcript

Jody Jelas (00:00:00):
Total table-flipping moment, and I went, "This is no way to live. This is not sustainable. I'm going to burn out. I'm going to be a shit mom. I can't go on like this." Right? So in that moment, I created what I call my ADD, as in automate, delegate, delete. Because people will go, "I hate my business. My business is failing." Sometimes your business is failing or you hate your business because you're doing tasks that suck your energy, and they're not in your flow. When really, they just need to look at the tasks that they're doing and build a team or automate things or stop doing the stuff. Just simplify.

Speaker 2 (00:00:41):
Welcome to the Paid to Create Podcast, where we dig into the secret strategies of successful creators making a lucrative living. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

AJ Roberts (00:00:49):
I just have to tell you about Kartra, the marketing platform that has seriously transformed my business. You know how running a business can be insanely time-consuming, right? Well, Kartra has been a game changer for me. It's honestly like having an entire marketing team in my pocket. And what I love most is that it automates all the tedious daily tasks for me, from marketing to sales, to even customer experience. I can't believe how much time and energy I've saved since I started using it. And get this. With Kartra, I can create websites, funnels, courses, membership sites, email campaigns, calendars, surveys, you name it. It's made managing my business so much simpler and more affordable. Honestly, I can't recommend Kartra enough. If you're curious, head to paidtocreatepodcast.com/kartra to start your trial. Trust me, you won't regret it.

(00:01:37):
Welcome, everybody, to another episode. Jody, welcome to the show. How's it going today?

Jody Jelas (00:01:41):
It is good down this end of the world.

AJ Roberts (00:01:44):
Awesome. Well, where is this end of the world? Most people don't know.

Jody Jelas (00:01:47):
It is summertime, New Zealand, school holidays, beach time. Complete opposite up there.

AJ Roberts (00:01:55):
Yeah, we're experiencing some kind of freeze here in San Diego all over. Seems like there's cold weather. That climate change is really getting us now.

Jody Jelas (00:02:07):
But when I was there with you guys a couple months ago, it rained one day and everyone was freaking out.

AJ Roberts (00:02:12):
Yeah. Yeah. So Jody, you own Phunnel Builders. Why don't you explain to everybody what Phunnel Builders is?

Jody Jelas (00:02:17):
All right. Phunnel Builders. So I've been doing this for 23 years. Phunnel Builders came about three years ago when we decided to go all-in Kartra. And obviously we've used all the software in the world, but when we went all-in on Kartra, we rebranded the company and went 100% using just Kartra and our agency. So we've got a whole team of experts and strategy, building funnels in Kartra, you name it, putting together courses, websites, everything like that.

AJ Roberts (00:02:50):
Yeah. So what were you doing before Phunnel Builders?

Jody Jelas (00:02:54):
Before Phunnel Builders, we still had the agency and we used all the different software. The other side of that is wrote a book called LadyBalls. So there's a personal development side to my business as well. So I was doing LadyBalls retreats and LadyBalls courses, completely separate to the agency but kind of hand in hand. Because any kind of entrepreneur will know that the personal growth and managing your sanity goes hand in hand with all of the metrics and building your business side of stuff.

AJ Roberts (00:03:29):
Yeah. Absolutely. So you've been doing that a while, obviously. But I think when I met you, it was over a decade ago now though, you were in the coaching consulting space and working with different people there. So what led you to start the agency piece?

Jody Jelas (00:03:45):
I think when I was 21 I had a web design company. So I'm 45 now. Do the maths. And it was back when there wasn't software like Kartra, we were building them from scratch. Or I think I did a tutorial in the front of the front page book. And then when things like Dreamweaver came out, it was like, "Oh my God, this is so easy. We're going to make millions." And then you compare that to Kartra now where it's so drag and drop and people can do it themselves, it's such a far cry from when I started.

(00:04:25):
But I just quit my job when I was living in London at 21 and started my business then and there. I had no idea what I was doing. I was working for a big investment bank, and I just saw this guy who was on his computer, which I was good at, and he was creating pictures online, and I thought, "That looks fun." And I asked him what he was doing, and he was building the website for the company. And I quit my job and went, "I'm going to go do that," and started my business. Vision Web Solutions it was called then, and I had no idea what I was doing.

AJ Roberts (00:05:03):
So that's kind of one of those moments of your life. It's a pivotable moment. Of course at the time, most of the time you're not thinking of, "This is going to change my entire life forever." So you had a job, you had security, you were working. What made you say, "Screw this, I'm going to quit and do this thing," that you saw somebody else putting pictures together on a computer and you're like, "That looks like fun. I'll just do that"?

Jody Jelas (00:05:26):
You just answered it. It looked like fun, and I make decisions very quickly and don't always think them out. It's kind of like, "That looks fun, let's chase it." Especially when you're 21. I mean, I was just interested in making enough money to go and get one of those cheap flights across to Europe for the weekend to go and party, to be honest. So that was my driver back then.

(00:05:50):
But also, I've been thinking about this lately and talking to someone, a client, actually, who came through Kartra, we're doing her Kartra stuff, and she's a psychotherapist specializing in ADHD entrepreneurs. And we ended up talking for hours, and it was just so interesting. She was talking about how your brain works. And for me, people future pace, right? People who have visions, they'll have a vision, but when I have a vision, people will think I'm insane, but there's zero doubt in my mind that it won't come to fruition. I don't know how. It may take a long time. I may make eight mistakes and the ninth time works.

(00:06:35):
I'm a sink or swim learner, and I was a rebel. I didn't like being told what to do. So being in a job and security, it just wasn't my bag anyway. So I was never going to ever stay in employment. And it was good money. I did miss the money. It took a while for that, but then I went, "Okay, cool, we've got to build this thing. How do I get customers?" And I went along to a bank night. There was a bank, so I went and opened a business bank account, and I got these cheap cards done that day just with my name on it, didn't even have a business name at that point. Went along to this bank night because they were doing an eCommerce night.

(00:07:13):
So I went onto this website... I think it was Ask Jeeves or something at the time, it was so long ago, and I looked up all these questions about eCommerce that I thought people might ask so I knew the answers, knowing that the bank's really not going to tell them jack about eCommerce, they're going to go and try and sell them a pension scheme or some sort of thing. Sure enough, I went along, the bank hardly talked, and then at the end, there was all these people confused, going, "Hey, what about all the building our website and an online business that you said you were going to talk about?"

(00:07:47):
And so I waited till the end and when they asked for questions, no one could answer them. So I wrote down everybody's questions, and then at the end put my hand up, answered all their questions because I had the Google equivalent at the time, answered all of their questions, and I got my first three web design clients out of that. And I was on the tube on the way home going, "How the hell do I build a website? Guess I'm about to find out." And yeah, loyal customers for years.

AJ Roberts (00:08:13):
That's crazy. So you essentially just put yourself out there. But, I mean, what's key there is the preparation, right? And that's something that I think is, for a lot of entrepreneurs, research is one of the key components to success, and it's often skipped. And what some people might not have picked up on there is you kind of had this idea of, "Okay, these are the people who are going to be there. This is kind of the businesses they're in. I don't know much, but let me go learn and let me figure this out so if and when the opportunity presents itself, I'm ready and I can capitalize on that."

(00:08:45):
How soon was that from when you quit, how soon was that? Because oftentimes there's this period of you quit and it's like, "Oh, it's going to be easy." And then it's not as easy as you thought and you're like, "Oh my gosh, what did I do? What's going on here?"

Jody Jelas (00:09:01):
It was the first week. It was days. So the other thing is as well as not quitting, although that's not always a good thing, I've learnt over the years, sometimes there's things that you should just leave on the cutting room floor and move on to the next thing, but I'm a quick action-taker, so I kind of don't have time to doubt myself. So it'll be, I'm on a mission, no doubt in my mind that I'm going to get there. Let's just throw some shit at the wall and see if it sticks kind of thing, to be honest. I think this might work, do a little bit of research, let's give it a crack. And if it doesn't, then I tweak it. Maybe that's why I got into funnels in the end because it was like, well, you do something, what's working? What's not? Tweak it. What's working? What's not now? Tweak it. So maybe that's what I was doing in terms of my action back then at the start.

AJ Roberts (00:09:54):
Yes. So you-

Jody Jelas (00:09:54):
[inaudible 00:09:56].

AJ Roberts (00:09:55):
Yeah. So you had almost immediate success, which it's funny because I think that that's something that a lot of people underestimate as well. I wouldn't call it luck, but a lot of people would see that as lucky. You're first week you go to this thing, you pick up three clients. I saw based on what you said, yeah, it was new to you, but you prepared for that. You prepared to go get those clients. And when the opportunity arised, you capitalized and was able to get those three clients. So from that point though, how did you continue to grow the business?

Jody Jelas (00:10:30):
Referrals. Seriously, referrals. So one of those clients, because here I was a Kiwi in London, and the Kiwis and Aussies are quite a cliquey group. One of those three clients was... A New Zealand and Aussie had created a travel company and they took people on these awesome adventures or to these big events. And because they had a tight community of Kiwi/Aussie entrepreneurs, they would just give me referrals. And because I was a Kiwi in London, I kind of got a shoe in that way.

(00:11:08):
It's kind of like people in New Zealand and Australia go, "How did you crack America?" And I always joke and go, "When you're doing ads, tick the box that says America." It doesn't matter where you are. If you're teaching strategy or something, that's universal. It's not like a, "Oh, how do I crack that country?" But it's also who you know. So the reason almost all our clients in America, at the very beginning when I had no American clients, it was all New Zealand, Australia, somebody in New Zealand was being coached by an American guy, who was a coach that had clients that needed websites, and I did a website for him, he loved it, we did a good job. So he just gave me website clients. Then we partnered up, and then from there my referral based business in America started happening.

(00:11:57):
So it's about go and do a job, provide an excellent service, start building on a referral base, and then you can do the other things. Because it doesn't cost you anything to build on referrals and do an amazing job. That's the cheapest marketing you'll ever get is to blow someone's mind from a service level, and then you're good to go.

AJ Roberts (00:12:20):
Yeah, no, that's interesting because I've been on a soapbox recently about essentially results-based marketing. And the way everything's changing and the transparency and all of that. And obviously certain things are based on units. Food in a shop is very different than products and services and courses and things like that, but the reality is it's like if client acquisition three, four years into your business model is like you're having to go find more and more and more people and your clients you have are not referring, you probably have some gap in your service, or whatever your promise is, whatever the outcome is.

(00:13:01):
Because the reality is, after your first few clients, if you get those people life-changing results, that should catapult your marketing. Because now you have the story of you being the mentor in some capacity and them being the hero, and going from where they were to where they are now. And those stories just becomes your marketing. It's the easiest marketing. And it seems to be for companies that are around for a long time, that have sustainability, that's the thing you'll see in each one of these businesses is that a large chunk of their business comes from referrals. And that's not to say that advertising and marketing can't add fuel to the fire, but in reality, if you're not getting results, then eventually your business is just going to die because you'll run out of market share to go get new people.

(00:13:49):
I saw that a lot in the gym industry where people would go through a town and essentially offer these challenges and have hundreds of people go through their gym. Well, then six months in, they couldn't run this anymore because they've already gone through all the people in the town that were going to take that opportunity.

(00:14:04):
During those early days, what were some of the biggest struggles you had, being that essentially you started this business on a whim. You saw a guy doing it, you're like, "That looks like good." So you probably had a lot to figure out there. Then you go and get three eComm clients and you learn about eComm before you went to the event. So early days, obviously you were probably very similar to myself where you said yes, and then you had to go figure it out, but what, for you, were some of the biggest challenges?

Jody Jelas (00:14:31):
Easy, which will take us... I know you and I said we'd talk about flow today, and this is a perfect example of a big learning. It was just me. I was living in a flat with... At one point there would've been 13 people in a three-bedroom flat in London, and we're just all there to party. I was trying to grow a business on a plastic desk that when I rolled over in the night, the plastic desk encroached on my bed, so I would hit the plastic desk when I would roll over. So my workspace and my sleep space was so close together. So I was not in the best environment for growing the business, but I think the biggest challenge was knowing what was in my flow and what wasn't. So I was doing everything in my business, the client relationship, the design, the coding.

(00:15:25):
So back then we built an eCommerce site, funnily enough for someone teaching workouts online and it was so new and exciting in 1999. It was like this big new thing. They were hoping that the millennium wasn't going to delete everything we created, and that they were teaching online exercises that you could do at home to lose weight. And these guys, it was two dudes, and they had gym equipment that they would sell as part of their packages. So I had to build an eCommerce site from scratch.

(00:16:03):
So I was nerding out in the code, and we got it working. They were none the wiser that I had no clue what I was doing. They thought I was doing this amazing job. But I was trying to wear all the hats and trying to grow my business. I'm doing the design stuff, which is a completely different mode to the code stuff. I don't know how to code, so I'm busting my as, trying to work out how the heck that you do that, playing all of those hats. And there was bits that I enjoyed, and the coding, for example, hated it. Wasn't my jam. Could do it. Doesn't mean that it was in my flow. So it would completely suck my energy. So my biggest challenge was doing things in the business that I hated that were against the grain of who I am, but I had to do it anyway because I was just a kid in London with no money, just trying to make it work.

AJ Roberts (00:16:54):
Yeah, I think that a lot of the listeners could probably relate to that, especially those that are in business for themselves, whether they're a solopreneur or they maybe have one or two people that help them, you end up wearing a lot of those hats and you end up doing way too much. And usually you're involved in the day-to-day and you don't get to be on the strategy and the big thinking side. And so the growth of your business is stunted because, so to speak, you're in the weeds, you're too close to it to know what needs to be done and what you should be doing.

(00:17:22):
And oftentimes it's frustrating because you are operating at a level that's below your genius. If you are an incredible expert on a specific topic, you're probably a great speaker, you're probably a great educator, content creator, and then it comes to the tech side of things and you just want X to do Y and you got to jump through loopholes to get that done.

(00:17:43):
So knowing that, knowing that now you own a very successful agency and you have a team around you, what would you say is the biggest thing you've learned when it comes to kind of delegating? Because I think that's been key to your current success from what I've seen on the outside, and obviously we've been friends for a while, but what would you say that biggest lesson is there?

Jody Jelas (00:18:04):
Yeah. Well, it was an easy moment because my daughter, who's turning 15 in a couple weeks, when she was a baby... So here I've got this newborn baby, I was still working really long hours at my agency. Very early on I learned, even websites, before anyone was calling them funnels, we were building websites, and our tagline was websites that make you money. Because we couldn't understand why people were creating glorified brochures online with just some information and contact details like glorified business cards. When someone comes into a website, you want to sell them something. So you got to build that relationship, you got to give them something to get them to trust you. So we were doing that, we were building our websites as if they were funnels way back at the start.

(00:18:50):
Then I got to this point years later. So we're talking more than a decade later. Is that right? Nearly a decade later. So I had my daughter. I was working till one o'clock in the morning. I had a couple of team members, but I was still too, in my business, I was still doing things outside my flow. So I've got this newborn and I was rocking her on her rocker, trying to get her to sleep with one foot. I had a breast pump machine on my printer trying to get milk to feed her, and I was building websites with the other hand. So I'm just there like a one-man band trying to go, "How am I doing this?" And I just lost it, total table-flipping moment. And I went, "This is no way to live. This is not sustainable. I'm going to burn out. I'm going to be a shit mom. I can't go on like this."

(00:19:42):
So in that moment I created what I call my ADD, as in automate, delegate, delete. So I got this spreadsheet and I tracked every 30-minute increment over a seven-day period on all the different things that I was doing. And then after I did seven days of tracking what I was doing, I put them into categories of what I was doing, and I created a column, love and hate. So the love column was the stuff that I actually enjoyed doing, and the hate column was anything that I could do, whether I could do it or not, was obsolete. Even if I could do it, did it suck my soul? So what was the energy cost of doing those jobs?

(00:20:24):
Then beside that, I had a column, automate, delegate, delete. The delete, so many jobs, when you look at what you do over your week, there's so many jobs you don't even need to do. Are these growing my business? Are they making me or my business better? If not can it. Don't need it at all. Then there was the automate. At that point we'd got really good at automation and the tech side of things. So it was like, well, what can we automate that doesn't require a human and put that into an action list? And then there was the delegate. Who have I got on my team or who can I get on my team to delegate those things to that can't be automated that do require a human?

(00:21:01):
Then when you go through your list, you've got all of your tasks and your categories, you've got your love/hate column, you've got your automate, delegate, delete. So in terms of what actions to take first, go through and highlight all of the things that you've got ticked as the hate column, and your action is to automate, delegate, delete those first and foremost. So in terms of the tasks that you're getting rid of, it's the tasks that suck your energy the most until you get to a point where everything is automated, delegated, or deleted, and the only things left on your list as the entrepreneur or the CEO is the things that you love, the things that float your boat.

(00:21:39):
Because people will go, "I hate my business, my business is failing." Sometimes your business is failing or you hate your business because you're doing tasks that suck your energy and they're not in your flow. And so people will throw their baby out with the bath water and then they'll just want to go and get a job, when really they just need to look at the tasks that they're doing and build a team or automate things or stop doing the stuff... Just simplify. Every year I look at my business and go, "How can I simplify it?" Because automatically we seem to over-complicate things, so much stuff we don't actually need to be doing.

(00:22:14):
So watching that energy cost, I did a video on it recently, it was like what is the... Because now I'm all about trying to quantify everything. You can quantify the energy suck in your business, you've just got to work out what are the things that cost your energy. Because if it's something that goes against the grain of what is in your flow or what's your zone of excellence or zone of genius, something that's supposed to just take an hour will suck 10 hours of your soul if it's something you're not enjoying.

AJ Roberts (00:22:46):
Oh yeah, I know those tasks well. I mean, I think what you just shared for, if you're listening right now, you probably realize the power of what Jody just did. But you may be also a little scared, and Jody, this is kind of you got to go back to before the business was cranking along. A lot of people they'll do that, but then they're like, "I can't afford to delegate." So what is the mind shift that people need to have? Because as you've grown, you've gotten... And I've witnessed it to the point where if you're doing something and you within 20 minutes realize, "Wait a minute, I shouldn't do this," you get it off your plate. But a lot of people struggle with that because every time they do that, they see it as dollars out the door versus dollars in the door, and the mindset, "Oh, I could just do this myself." So how have you, one, developed your mindset, but what would you say to those who need that mind shift?

Jody Jelas (00:23:44):
Yeah. So there's a couple of points here. Because back at the start, I couldn't afford to employ people. Then I had to look at, well, what was it costing me to not? Well, for one, do you know how many times I've tried to burn the boats on my entire business and gone, "I hate this," and walk away? There was actually a time that I did. I walked away from my web design company and went all-in on funnels. I actually gave my web design company in the end to my team who were building WordPress sites. So during that time, I got rid of the entire business and went all-in on funnels because the funnels was more in my flow than the website stuff. So the amount of times that I tried to burn the boats was incredible.

(00:24:30):
I think that there was a massive turning point where I was getting people overseas who were quite cheap to do jobs, and the turnover, they would leave halfway through a project. So I really had to learn what... A big turning point in my business was when I decided that I had to change my mindset from no one can do it as good as me because it's my business, to, I only employ people who do it better than me. And from then on, the caliber of people that joined my business were just so... Most of them still work for me to this day. It was just such a big mind shift. I just had to employ the right people and take good care of them. I had to understand what their reward language was so that I took such good care of them that they never wanted to leave. Their loyalty has just been through the roof. So yeah, I think that was a massive turning point.

(00:25:28):
In terms of if you want to quantify it, this is my big thing at the moment, let's say, so someone will come to us and go, "Yeah, I can build funnels myself. I'll be able to do that. It's going to take me some time." Because a lot of people will come and go, "I want to create a course," and they've got to film the videos for those course, but they also want to save money by building their own funnel. But you can delegate the funnel building. We can't delegate their face on camera. They need to do that. So if they're building the funnel and building the course, it's going to take them twice as long. And recording those videos often takes a lot longer than you think.

(00:26:12):
So if someone comes to us and goes, "We can build the funnels ourselves, we can do the course ourselves, it's going to take us about four weeks." Let's say it takes us two weeks to build the funnel, and within that two weeks because their time's freed up, they're actually able to record their course. So instead of taking four weeks, it's now only taking two weeks. If they've got something they're selling that's $1,000, and when they put their funnel out there and start selling, they're selling 10 a week, then if that's 10 grand a week, if they're cutting down the launch time by two weeks, by delegating, they've just saved themselves 20 grand.

(00:26:50):
So if someone comes along and says, "Give us 10 grand or five grand or two grand, and we'll build your funnels for you," they've just made a profit by delegating that job. So what's it costing is more how long is it going to take you to start making sales if you are trying to do all of that yourself? So it's more of a what's it going to cost you, rather than, "I can't afford to actually delegate that to somebody."

AJ Roberts (00:27:17):
Absolutely. And I think that's the way you have to look at stuff. What's the expense to me from an ROI standpoint. If I don't do this today, and let's say it takes longer than four weeks, and you're planning... Let's say your goal is to make 10K a month, and so you say, "Okay, I can do this myself in four weeks." Well, okay, go ahead. Probably not going to get it done. So let's say it takes two months. Well, you just lost yourself $10,000 because you essentially are a month behind, you plan to make 10 grand a month with this new course. So I think that's a great way to look at it, and I think a lot of people can start to work backwards with that. Because especially if someone has been thinking about doing something, let's say they've been thinking about launching this for the last eight months, well, if your goal is to make 10K a month with it, well that's $80,000 that you have stolen from yourself or your family or whoever. I think that's a great reframe and a great mind shift.

(00:28:15):
I'm curious because I'm entrepreneurial, I'm a content creator, I have ADHD, so I see new things, I bounce all over. And what I found is the more free time I have right by delegating, and it's something that I believe in as well, but the more time I free up, the more I'm wanting to fill my plate, or the more I'm open to these new ideas, it's like, "Ooh, birdie over there." So how do you create boundaries for yourself? I mean, you've been doing essentially the same thing for over 20 years, right? Your business has gone through iterations and obviously your focus now is slightly different than just a website with funnels and making sure that you're building things that convert. But ultimately, it's kind of the same thing. It's kind of the same thing in what you're doing.

(00:28:59):
So number one, a lot of people don't stick with something for 20 plus years. Number two, how do you create boundaries to avoid shiny object syndrome, bouncing off the walls, and getting into things that you later go, "Oh, what have I done? I've just created a new job for myself," right?

Jody Jelas (00:29:14):
Yeah. Which I do all the time. I mean, you've known me long enough. So I've got the LadyBalls brand, I've got the agency, and I've got this swimwear range that I want to create called Vela for women with big tatas because there's not... There's some out there, but there's not really a good market for it. So I've got all these things and I'm really pumped. And I've got people going, "When are you doing your next LadyBalls retreat?" And I haven't done one in a few years. Or, "When are you launching that swimwear brand? I can't wait. I've got a bunch of friends who will want it." So at the time I'm trying to focus 100% on the agency, but I've got all these other things that are going as well.

(00:29:56):
And I actually had this conversation with that client, the psychotherapist specialized in ADHD the other day, and I was telling her how my brain works because if I tried to do all of those things, I'll do them at 33%. And because I'm creative, I also don't want to stunt myself by going, "No, you got to stay in your lane."

(00:30:16):
So what I actually did, what I try and do is I can still be creative, but I've got to be creative within a boundary. So the boundary might be, "Hey, Jody, this week we want to create a new promotion for this new offer. Get wild, go creative, think outside the box." So if I'm sitting around, I'm still being creative, but I'm being creative within a zone. Because if I go, "Hey, Jody, have a week off and go be creative," my brain will be all over the show. It's like when someone goes, "What do you want for dinner?" and you're like, "I don't know." But if someone went, "What do you want for dinner? Do you want Mexican food, Asian food?" and you gave them some options, then they can zone in and go, "Oh, okay, yeah, Thai sounds great," or something in those areas. It's like it's outside the box thinking, but doing it within a box so that you can be creative within limits so that you're not completely scattering your attention everywhere.

AJ Roberts (00:31:22):
Yeah, I call that controlled chaos.

Jody Jelas (00:31:24):
Yeah. [inaudible 00:31:27].

AJ Roberts (00:31:27):
Yeah, that comes back from my lifting days where it's like you could do whatever you wanted, but there was parameters on that day. One day you're like, "Hey, you're going heavy." Well, what exercise? It doesn't matter. Just pick a lower body exercise and you're going to go heavy on it. And so I call that controlled chaos. And I think that that's kind of the key to allow yourself to be creative, but make sure there's a container around it so that it doesn't spill over or it doesn't damage what it is you've already worked on. And I think it's something you have to constantly do checks and balances because sometimes opportunities present themselves and they're things you should jump on. And then sometimes opportunity present themselves, and it's really just your desire and interest to learn something new.

(00:32:08):
We both had a mentor that would always say The Rolling Stones don't play what they want to play, they play what the people who are in the seats for the last however many decades they've been touring. When they play a new song, people aren't as excited as when they play that song that was number one 30 years ago. So it's definitely a journey to get to that mindset.

(00:32:32):
Switching gears a little bit when it comes to the agency model, obviously you have a lot of clients that you have to manage relationships with, and a lot of people struggle with that. I remember a guy that I used to follow would wear a hat and it said, "Clients suck." So you hear that a lot. So how do you balance that interaction with clients to get the best from them, but also keep the sanity of your team and yourself so that you continue to enjoy working with people?

Jody Jelas (00:33:07):
I've been trying to work this out lately because I've got a couple of people on my team who know strategy well, but when I jump on with a potential client, my close rate is 70%. And I've been watching the calls going, "What am I doing different from my team other than they might know that I've been doing this for so long?" Because my team have been doing it for a long time as well, just not as long. And I've realized the difference is because I've been an entrepreneur for so long, when I'm talking to them on a call, yes, we're talking strategy, but I'm resonating entrepreneur to entrepreneur, and my team are entrepreneurs as well. But because I've been doing it so long, there's always something about their story that I can resonate with. And not to get too woo-woo, but without even realizing it, there's like an intuitive component to it as well.

(00:34:13):
I'm hearing their pain points that they're saying is their pain point, but in the way that they speak and the language that they use, what I'm hearing is their bigger picture, life, how their personality works, what their real lifestyle pain points are, even though the strategy and funnel and want to launch this or do that, there's pain points, there's kind of a bigger picture, then there's always something I can resonate with. And then we will get talking on things that are completely irrelevant to the funnels that we're talking about on the call, and there's a connection there. And you can tell so much about a person when they start talking about their story that, yeah, I just think that we just really click.

(00:35:04):
So we very rarely get any clients... And we're very picky about our clients. If I think a client's not going to treat my team well, I won't take them on as a client. Hell no. There's people I've given all of their money back in the first few days and gone, "Keep what we've done, see you later," because I don't want that energy on my team. I'll protect my team. But yeah, we don't get a lot of that because on those calls when me or my team are talking to them, there's that resonating entrepreneur to entrepreneur that's completely irrelevant to the funnel side that, I don't know, there's just a connection, and your intuition just knows which people are going to be great customers, and then they just always come back for more.

AJ Roberts (00:35:48):
Yeah. That energetic alignment is pretty special. And I think that a lot of people... It depends on what you're selling of course, but what I tend to notice is that really all you're doing is selling a past version of yourself. And so if you're having a conversation with someone and you don't have that experience because you're just a salesperson, you've been hired to have those phone calls, there's only a certain level of rapport you can gain because you can't think beyond the surface because you've not been kept up at night with the fears and worries like they have. So you can empathize with them, but you can't truly understand them.

(00:36:33):
And that's kind of, again, getting woo-woo here, as you said, it's a subconscious communication that it is not something you can teach in a sales training course. And I think that when you have the correct energetic alignment upfront, then the backend relationship is completely different because there's a level of respect for each other, and also a deep understanding and trust that isn't necessarily gained through a third party doing sales for you. Because again, not to say that you can't make that system work. There's plenty of businesses that succeed that have call centers and things of those natures or phone sales or whatever you want to label those, but the reality is is oftentimes that salesperson is working for a commission.

(00:37:23):
And so when it comes to client selection, which is the second piece of this that I think is very important for people to get, when it comes to client selection, they're not turning people down based on whether energetically they align. If they get a yes, they're wanting to take the sale because, one, they've probably been given benchmarks and targets and numbers to hit, and two, they want their commission. So it's a very important piece, and it's not something that not everybody can do, but like you said, those on your team that are taking those phone calls have been doing it. The difference slightly is that they've never been the entrepreneur. So there's still a level of connection that they just will never understand.

(00:38:05):
And I've said this before when I've taught sales. A male can sell post-pregnancy weight loss, absolutely. They do it all the time. But are they going to be the best in the world? Probably not. And the reason is is every woman is going to look at them and say, "You have no freaking clue what I'm going through, and you'll never understand that." And that might not happen on the conscious level, but on the subconscious level, there's an intuitive side to us, like you mentioned, that just knows that that person is not talking from real experience. They're talking from essentially theory. And it's made up a little bit if you work with a certain avatar and you get that avatar results because now you are alongside them.

(00:38:44):
But those businesses tend to remove the story of the founder or the owner, and they use the clients' stories because the client stories are closer to the prospects. And I think that that's very, very key to latch onto because neither of us would say we're sales trainers, but when we look at the piece of the job, it's essentially you market, you sell, and then you deliver. There's three pillars and it's you get the attention, you convert it, and then you have to deliver. And that's the real piece that I think a lot of people, especially in the current times need to understand is what happens after the sale is way more important than what happens before. But aligning with the right people, bringing on the right clients through client selection, I think is really, really key.

(00:39:29):
I want to shift gears a little bit here for those that are listening, because obviously you work with a lot of different clients and across a lot of different industries, and I think what people would want to know is what's the best funnel for someone to build, Jody?

Jody Jelas (00:39:44):
Oh my god, that... Hey, I just want to go back a step because what you just said brought up another key factor. So, for example, one of my sales team at the start, I didn't think she was a salesperson. She could deliver the tech side, but I didn't think she was a salesperson. She's worked for me for about six months now. She is absolutely killing it. Her conversion rates and the leads that she's getting are not the ones who are looking for upsell. So last week she had a mega week, and I think what it is she's got the confidence now. It's how you deliver it.

(00:40:24):
So you know how way back 20-odd years ago when I went and stood at that meeting, didn't know what I was doing? When I answered those eCommerce questions, I answered them with the utmost confidence as if I knew what I was doing. And I've always hated the fake it till you make it, but the one thing that you can fake is the confidence. And our mentor, Kevin taught us this in sales about the benevolent alpha.

(00:40:49):
I remember when I first started selling high ticket, my first eight sales calls failed. They were nos. I called him up and I went, "Why is this not working?" And he said, "Because you've never sold big ticket. You're probably going in fearful. You've got fearful energy. They're smelling that. You've got to be the benevolent alpha." I failed call one to eight, I closed call nine and I closed call 11, and I made more money that week than I had ever paid myself in a month. And all I did was had to switch my energy into absolute confidence. And I knew what I was doing. It wasn't like what I was doing was new. And quite often people are moving from teaching what they already know, but doing it in a different modality. So you've got to, when you're talking to people, whatever it is you're doing, just hold your head high and deliver it with the absolute confidence, and life goes so much more swimmingly when you do that.

AJ Roberts (00:41:47):
Yeah, I think that-

Jody Jelas (00:41:48):
[inaudible 00:41:48].

AJ Roberts (00:41:48):
Yeah, I think that's an important piece because a lot of people do, even when they're brilliant at what they've done and they've done it for a long time, a lot of people struggle to communicate that clearly with clarity and confidence. And I think that what's key is that sometimes you don't need another business course. Sometimes you don't need another tactical course. What you need is probably to go and put yourself in an environment where you're forced to learn how to speak in public or communicate in a way that does that. And so investing in that is probably going to carry over to your business more than you've ever realized.

(00:42:32):
And I think that that's the thing, when you think about affirmations and you think about self-talking, you all it's designed to do is self-confidence. And I struggle with confidence, and a lot of people wouldn't associate lack of self-confidence with me because of some of my past success. But the reality is is that I doubt myself all the time. And it's my peer group that often tells me things that I'm like, "Whoa, that's how you view me? Whoa, that's pretty cool." I think all successful people tend to all think less of themselves than their group does around them, unless... Some people don't. But those are the rare few, and usually they lack some other social skills.

(00:43:12):
But yeah, the point I'm trying to make, and then I think the key, what you are saying is oftentimes when we're struggling, it's not because we're not good at what we do, it's not because we're not in front of this person who we could sell to. It's the way that we communicate to that person. And you see it a lot where people back themselves out of sales because they make assumptions on that other person. But really what it is they're not sure if they can actually help that person because their clarity and confidence is not at a place where they can communicate and confidently say like, "Yes, I can help you, and here's how we're going to do it." So I think that's really, really key.

(00:43:47):
Following that thread, because that's where I think when we get into funnels and we look at funnels and we look at marketing campaigns in general, everyone could do a video sales letter. Everybody can write an email. But it's those that get up there and they have an energy to them, and it comes through on the camera. And even if it's just their voice on a slide, there's a tonality, there's conviction in what they say. So obviously you've learned that a lot. Your other brand, LadyBalls, is all about that. What is some advice you could give those that... Let's say they have a funnel, but it's not performing. And a lot of the reason it's probably not performing is not because the funnel is not good, but it is the way they're presenting themselves. What would you say to that person is something they could do to immediately start seeing an increase in their conversions or their reach outs?

Jody Jelas (00:44:40):
This is cool because the question you asked me before I went on the confidence tangent, which is the best funnel, this is in alignment with that question. So anytime we've taught people to create programs online or build funnels, one of the questions we'll always ask is, "What is your delivery jam?" And what I mean by that is what is the way that you can deliver content that is in alignment with how you like to deliver? So my example I always use is I've got a friend who wanted to create an online course, and she was trying to do it with slides to record her screen, and for months went by and she hadn't created it and it was just making her head explode. It was out of flow. However, she was an amazing speaker. So she got someone to film her on stage, record her in her delivery jam, which is speaking to an audience, recorded that, made that the course.

(00:45:35):
So if you don't want to be on camera, and you might be good at what you do, but you might think, "Hey, I suck on camera, I don't have the confidence, I can't put myself into that zone of pure conviction," then don't use that as your modality. So the kind of funnel that you should create, the first question is what is the best way that you deliver it in the most convincing way? Is that audio? Is that audio and your voice and slides? Is it in alignment for you to just record the audio and have a video editor turn that audio into a video?

(00:46:12):
I recorded an entire program called The Video Code, which was how to profit from video blogging. I had post-it notes of just the modules, and I just had a couple of bullets for each one on the post-it note of a hotel. I used the mic, just like the earbuds on your iPhone, and I walked around, I looked at the topic, walked around the hotel room just talking about that topic without real plan because it was just what I knew, and I did that for each of the modules. I gave that to my video editor and she put slides to it. Whereas some people might build the slides and then talk to the slides because that's the way their energy flows best. So whether it's creating a course or creating your funnel, what is the way that you deliver in the most simplest way? Otherwise you'll also, not only will it not be as convincing and not as confident, but they'll smell it a mile away, and they won't get as much out of it as you want them to from a service delivery standpoint.

AJ Roberts (00:47:19):
Yeah, I think that's an incredible way to look at it because you're absolutely right. The reality is it's like what are you actually going to do? Because a lot of times you buy a course and it'll tell you to do something, but the truth is you don't even consume content yourself that way. So if you're wondering like, "Oh, okay, well, what would I do? What is the thing?" Maybe you have never created before. The reality is just look at how you consume. How do you consume?

(00:47:42):
If you are someone who listens to audiobooks versus reading, then you probably shouldn't write a book. Maybe you do an audiobook or you audiobook, and then get that transcribed to the book. So it's not that you can't end up with the modality or the thing that you want, but you may do it in a different way. And I think that that's really key.

(00:48:01):
I can't teach from slides. If I have slides, it throws me off and I stumble and it's like I'm trying to stick to the slide, but I have these thoughts over here. It's not good for me to try to do it like that. And I've done a few things and I'm never happy at the end. I'm always like, "I'm going to have to redo this, re-shoot this." But you put me in front of an audience for three days with bullet points, and I run out of time because it just flows and it is comfortable for me. Some people that would scare the living crap out of. Be live in front of people with bullet points. But it comes down to, like you said, knowing yourself, and if you know, okay, when am I the most productive? Is it when I'm writing? Is it when I'm speaking? Is it when I'm talking? Is it when I'm alone? Is it when I'm in front of people? And then you build the business around that.

(00:48:54):
That is the key, I think, to the productivity hacks where people are always looking for hacks. People are always looking for what's the best morning routine? What's the one that you're going to do? That's the best one. That's the reality of it. It doesn't matter what somebody else is doing because maybe their whole life they've been a writer. Maybe their whole life they've been a reader. So they have a different thought process than you, who, if you've never read a book, then why would you go in writing a book? These are the kind of things that entrepreneurs don't think about. Because what they're trying to do is model someone else's success. But the reality is, if you don't know who you are, then you're essentially putting out something that's subpar because you're never going to be that other person.

Jody Jelas (00:49:38):
So I can speak on a stage, but it's not my complete delivery, it's not my complete flow. Doing face to camera videos is. Now, the reason that is is when I'm on a stage or when I'm talking, I don't have much of a filter and I'm very polarizing. So I know that people in the room either love me or hate me. So if I'm on the stage and I'm looking in the audience, I can always see that one person who I think is going to want to stab me in the carpark on the way home. And I just focus on that person and it throws me off my game. But I remember speaking at Ryan Stewman's event where you were speaking as well, and I got up there and said some stuff jokingly, and then afterwards he asked how many people in the room had guns, and more than half the room put their hand up, and I thought, "Oh my God, I'm so glad I didn't know that before I spoke."

(00:50:29):
So it's kind of like my delivery jam, if I'm talking to a camera, I'm safe. If anyone's on the other side watching it, they're just watching the video somewhere in the world. So my book, LadyBalls, is actually 80% of my video blogs transcribed, and then three editors turned that into a book, and then I just wrote the other 20% of it. So most of my book is transcriptions of videos because videos are my flow.

AJ Roberts (00:50:55):
And that goes back to what you said earlier about being at delegate too. Do what you do best and then hand it off to the people that know how it should end up, like the editor.

(00:51:05):
What's funny is I'm the opposite. Straight to camera I struggle because there's no feedback. I really enjoy the feedback from the audience. So when I notice that someone is dozing, even though I know a lot of times it's because they didn't sleep the night before because they were out at the bar till 4:00 AM, which I know a little about, or they're just exhausted because it's after lunch and they're getting that food... to me, that's a challenge. Like, okay, how can I change my tonality, the pace? How can I pick this up? How can I get a rise out of the crowd so that wakes that person up? And I really flow on that. But you've put me in front of a camera, I'll stumble over my words. It's like I'm thinking while I'm trying to speak. Because there's no feedback, it's this constant... I'm almost observing myself screw up, and then I'm judging myself. Whereas you're on stage, you don't have time for that. There's no like, "Hey, let me start again." Right? So super cool. I think that's another big takeaway. We've had quite a few.

(00:52:05):
For me, obviously knowing you for so long and knowing how long you've been in business, I know there's been moments where you've wanted to throw it all in. There's been moments where you've thought about just... Like you said, with the website company, you did kind of just burn the bridges and start from scratch, but you've always been an entrepreneur essentially from when you got into the workforce. What has kept you going? What is it in those dark moments that you've not gone, "Okay, I'm just going to go get a job"?

Jody Jelas (00:52:36):
Yeah, so a friend of mine said it to me. See, any time I wanted to burn the boats on my business, it comes back to I had slipped into doing tasks that I don't enjoy, or a big thing was selling a program, and half the people... not half, but some of the people who buy it don't follow through. They don't take the actions that you're giving them, and therefore they don't get the results. So I would feel a massive responsibility for that and sometimes take programs that were doing well off the shelf. But I could see the people that weren't doing well weren't doing the work. But I would add accountability, and there would always still be some people who weren't going to do the work.

(00:53:21):
Now, I've bought a bunch of programs that I've never watched. I never asked for the money back because that's on me for not doing the work. Or I think, "Oh, I'll have time to watch that later." And I don't because I don't actually consume online courses. I want to go straight to the person one-on-one now. Because back in the day, I couldn't afford it, so I would want to consume the courses. But now I'm like, "Take me straight to that person to work one-on-one." So yeah, there's definitely times I've gone to burn the boats.

(00:53:45):
I actually did a massive burn the boats offer where I was shutting down my agency before we went all-in on Kartra. And every time I've done that, my friend said to me, "Do you realize that every time you go to burn the boats, the universe sends you back a bigger boat?" So as I did my burn the boats, don't want to do this anymore, people aren't doing the work, went to shut down my whole agency, and then you come along and introduced me to Kartra. And then I had this whole new lease on life where I'm like, "Oh my God, this is amazing." And from that point on, I've built the team differently.

(00:54:30):
The team run the show. They're an amazing machine. So I love doing the sales, I love doing the videos. So I just focus on that and I send it all to the team. And now it's a completely well-oiled machine that's totally scalable. But I was about to burn the boats before all that came along. And purely because I had put a program out at the time and not everybody was doing the work. And it was like, no, 100% success only. But yeah, it's not always the way. Some people just aren't going to do the work, and you just got to be okay with that.

AJ Roberts (00:55:06):
Absolutely. I want to touch on saying you highlighted there and go deeper, because I think that the mindset piece, we've talked about it briefly today, but I think is really, really key in surviving as an entrepreneur. Because at the end of the day, it is one of the hardest professions, in a sense, because there's nobody to blame but you. You're the top of the chain. So there's no nobody above you that could have saved you. You're on your own when it comes to making sure everything dials in.

(00:55:34):
You mentioned with the struggles and everything, when you couldn't afford to go directly to the source, you would buy the course. But I've also noticed a huge shift in you where you used to want to be a part of certain things and you would travel all the time, and you do... You almost, I don't want to say craved fame because I never got that sense from you, but you felt as if you needed to be cranking out videos for social media. You needed to be visible. Let's just say that. That you needed to be visible in order to get clients. That was a big thought process.

(00:56:09):
And I know recently we've had conversations around the difference now in terms of peace of mind and your measurement of almost like being neutral and enjoying a certain lifestyle. Can you talk to that shift? Because what I've seen is early on, young entrepreneurs tend to be chasing something. And then older entrepreneurs are kind of the opposite, where they're more about the moments they spend with people, the experiences they have. They're not so interested in being able to afford certain things. Doesn't mean they don't. As a byproduct of their success, they usually have those things, but it's no longer the thing that is driving them. And I've seen that shift in you and I just would like you to speak to that because I think a lot of the listeners probably can relate a little bit to your journey.

Jody Jelas (00:57:00):
Yep. Although it might be a little bit of age and maturity. So back when you first met me, it was a massive turning point in my income. And so I think it wasn't the fame I craved, it was the adrenaline of being surrounded by people who were doing so much better than me, so much more successful. And that was a pivotal point in my business, was being around those people when we were all in mastermind together and I was going over there and partying and doing all those things. But then as always, with partying and that kind of lifestyle, it just wasn't a fit so much anymore because the things that really matter is not going to all the DJs and clubs and staying till the sun comes up. It's more about at home and being with my kids and what life I create for them.

(00:58:00):
So the last few years, I mean, definitely have been my best years in business ever because of everything that went down. I couldn't travel, and so I was forced to focus. And then I realized how much I liked that. I liked being able to focus because it got me the results. But I think back then I thought going out and partying and rubbing shoulders with the right people, I thought... And I was creating videos online, which was getting me the results. And don't get me wrong, I've just employed someone who's purely doing that for me again. I just think it's from a different energy point. Because obviously we didn't plan that question or these questions, so I'm trying to work out the answer out my face as you ask it.

(00:58:41):
I think the biggest thing is less ego. When you're younger and you're new and you get such an adrenaline rush for the beginning of the success or the desire of the success, ego plays such a massive part, but as you mature, you drop the ego and you don't need that so much. So this time when I'm going out creating videos, there's not ego doing it. It is a desire to get a result for clients, which will bring a result for my business, which will give me the lifestyle I need.

(00:59:20):
So after we stop talking today, it's school holidays. I'm taking my son and all his friends, we're going up north because there's this ninja warrior course, and we're going to go up there and spend the whole afternoon doing these ninja activities. So I'll probably come back with an injury tomorrow. Watch this space. And that's more what it's about now. It's not about going to the clubs and partying and the adrenaline. In fact, as you get older and your ego goes, you're like, you don't want that kind of adrenaline. It's just not sustainable. It's not healthy. And my business is more successful now than it was then.

AJ Roberts (00:59:57):
Yeah, it was interesting. I think that you said something there that I'm curious to see if it resonates a little bit. Because the first thing you mentioned was being around people to expand your own reality, and I think that that's really key. And I think that for both of us, quantum shifts came from seeing the potential, right? Other people are doing stuff and you're like, "Well, they're not really that different than me." Or sometimes your ego tells you, "Well, they're not that good. I'm way better." But that creates a new possibility for you, a new level of confidence for you.

(01:00:30):
However, you mentioned something that a little bit of Keeping up With the Jones' mentality, right? But do you think that some of that... Because obviously COVID forced us at home and that kind of brought about some of these revelations, because if I just stay and focus on the business... Do you think early in a career, and I know for me this is true, that's why I'm curious on your experience, but do you think it's a little bit too, you're searching for the secret sauce? Like you truly believe that you've yet to... Even though you have all this information and you've had level of success, there's just something bigger out there that I don't know. So I've got to go do all these things. I got to buy all these courses. I got to be learning about... Right now, there's crypto, there's NFTs, there's AI software-

Jody Jelas (01:01:18):
[inaudible 01:01:19].

AJ Roberts (01:01:18):
But it's really easy to be like, "Oh, okay, I've got to go spend six hours a day learning about this new stuff because if I don't my business is going to... I'm never going to get to that holy land," or whatever it is. Do you think you had a little bit of that too, where it's like you're searching for those big answers constantly?

Jody Jelas (01:01:37):
Yeah, because I started seeing some results and I was flapping and grabbing on, and then I was like, "Well, I'm getting some results, so I must be doing the right thing. The flapping and grabbing on must be doing something." And it kind of was a little bit, but it was also very distracting. So Victoria that was with us back in those days, who I partied with, her and I talk now and go, "Man, imagine back then when ads were easier, everything was easier. We knew what we were doing. We were successful. Imagine instead of going out and all the clubbing, imagine if we'd been focused in our businesses. Right now, we would be so loaded that we would be just flying private jets everywhere and that's it."

(01:02:25):
We weren't smart about it because our egos were so big. We were seeking the wrong kind of stuff. Whereas when you just calm the farm and look at what really drives you and what's really important, and just get a hold of that ego... There's nothing wrong with some ego. You need it, you need a little bit of it. But yeah, when you can just get a better understanding.

(01:02:46):
I think the biggest thing recently I've been learning is all of our brains work differently. And the way you and I have been talking, our brains work a little bit the same way, but it's understanding how your brain works and what your needs are, the real needs. And I also think it's over these years, since back then a decade ago, even marketing strategies. Do you remember what marketing strategies were like? It was so just... Not sleazy. It was just like black hat ideas. And now even though technology is advancing and AI is coming out, what is becoming more and more obvious is the more real you are, the more people trust you and the easier business is. So if you're just not being that crazy hyper ego-driven version, and you're being the real tell your story, people will build that rapport with you so much faster, and I believe your business will actually grow faster that way.

AJ Roberts (01:03:53):
Yeah. More longevity as well. I mean, there's plenty of not so ethical businesses out there still operating, but if you look at what's happening around the world in the news, whatever, reality is is transparency is unavoidable. So if there's things going on that you wouldn't want people to know, eventually that's going to come out. And that's the difference now is that you can't hide from that controversy, and it comes out a lot quicker. So even though, and I'm hesitant to go into any conspiracies or what are now thought to be conspiracies that then come out are true, but what we're seeing is things that used to be maybe 30 years later, all the truth would come out.

(01:04:41):
Now it's like the internet, a story breaks, and there's people online who form communities to be detectives. They're going out and trying to just figure out who the criminal was or what the... And so you have these people that just have a sense of something bigger than them that they want to be a part of, and they don't let any of this stuff slide. And sometimes it swings to the extreme, but what we're seeing is you really have to clean up your act. Even if you didn't want to, you don't have a choice anymore. And if you are able to pull the wool over somebody's eyes, and essentially what I've heard this terminology, extract money from people. I'm just going to get as much money from them as possible. There's now an expectation that there's results.

(01:05:32):
If you tell them you're going to help them and you don't help them, now they have a case against you. And we've seen certain companies get taken down because they've over-promised or under-delivered versus just doing what they could do, because that the money was too good to ignore. Like, "Oh, we can just twist the truth a little bit and get more money." So those days are kind of gone. We're in a very strange transition in our lifetime where everything is being sped up so fast that it's like you do anything wrong and the whole world knows about it within 24 hours. So it's a lot to pack down.

(01:06:21):
Is there anything we haven't touched on that you thought we would or think we should?

Jody Jelas (01:06:26):
Not really. I think we covered a lot of it, but yeah, it's been interesting. It's funny because the transition from when we met 10 years ago to now has been so gradual that it's not until you ask me these questions and bring it up that I go, "That's right. I forgot that that's what it used to be like, or that's what my life used to be like." Or I had lunch with Victoria recently, I haven't seen in ages, and we were talking about the old days and what we were doing and how differently we do things now and just... Yeah.

(01:06:59):
Oh, it's interesting because she was my ads person back then, and I was getting 11 cent opt-ins to my funnel. And in my industry now, that's kind of unheard of, but we were talking about just things like TikTok. I never thought I'd be on there. I would fight that one to the death. But I look now at TikTok advertising as a marketing stream and the ads and how people aren't getting shut down like you do on Facebook Ads so easily. And I'm like, "Wait, there's a whole new wave." And now we're going into it with our mature thinking, not the ego-driven thinking, and all of those things we wished we had done back then when those marketing strategies were easy, we've got a whole new wave of marketing strategies now. But if we take the new us and really maximize what we can do with those marketing strategies, we've got a new wave of opportunity that's like nothing we've seen before.

AJ Roberts (01:07:56):
I absolutely agree. I think that's a great place. To wrap this up, Jody, where can people find out more about you and connect with you?

Jody Jelas (01:08:04):
Yeah, well, if you go to jodyjelas.com, it asks you, do you want LadyBalls or do you want funnels? So you can go either way, either to the agency or go download the LadyBalls book for free, or go by the hard copy on Amazon. So it's all there, jodyjelas.com.

AJ Roberts (01:08:21):
Awesome. Thanks so much for being on today. Really appreciate it. We'll talk soon. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Tune in for another episode very soon.

(01:08:29):
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