006 Empowering Transformation: Liana Ling's Path from Lawyer to CEO, Igniting Your Inner Drive for Unstoppable Growth

Welcome to the Paid to Create Podcast, where we uncover the secret strategies of successful full-time creators! In this episode, we dive deep into the inspiring journey of Liana Ling, an entrepreneur who transformed her career from being an undervalued lawyer to becoming a thriving paid media specialist.

Liana shares her personal story of resilience, determination, and the pivotal moment that led her to embrace entrepreneurship. Join us as we explore the power of investing in oneself and the confidence it brings to pursue one's passions. Discover how Liana built one of the largest education paid media sites, and the valuable lessons she learned along the way.

In this candid conversation, we discuss the importance of having a supportive community and finding a roadmap to guide your entrepreneurial path. Liana's journey from website design and SEO to mastering the art of Facebook Ads is filled with invaluable insights and actionable strategies that can propel your business forward.

Learn about the potential pitfalls of using paid traffic for businesses and gain insights on micro-testing for micro-results. We also delve into the fascinating world of AI technology and its impact on marketing and advertising in creative industries.

Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, this episode will inspire you to take bold action, invest in yourself, and tap into your true potential. Get ready to be inspired, empowered, and equipped with the knowledge to level up your business.

Don't miss this enlightening episode of the Paid to Create Podcast, where we share real stories of success, valuable tips, and practical advice from industry experts. Click now to listen and unlock your path to becoming a paid creator!

Transcript

Liana Lang (00:00):
As I mentioned, when I joined Ad Skills, I was absolutely not asking for enough money. And so that got fixed first. I remember the first time I asked for $2,500 a month and somebody said, "Gladly, I'll pay that for the services." And so that was the first client I got after I joined Ad Skills.

Sarah Jenkins (00:21):
Welcome to the Paid to Create Podcast where we dig into the secret strategies of successful creators making a lucrative living. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

AJ Roberts (00:29):
I just have to tell you about Kartra, the marketing platform that has seriously transformed my business. You know how running a business can be insanely time-consuming, right? Well, Kartra has been a game changer for me. It's honestly like having an entire marketing team in my pocket. And what I love most is that it automates all the tedious daily tasks for me from marketing to sales, to even customer experience. I can't believe how much time and energy I've saved since I started using it and get this, with Kartra I can create websites, funnels, courses, membership sites, email campaigns, calendars, surveys, you name it. It's made managing my business so much simpler and more affordable. Honestly, I can't recommend Kartra enough. If you're curious, head to PaidToCreatePodcast.com/Kartra to start your trial. Trust me, you won't regret it.

(01:16):
Welcome everyone to the show. Today's guest is Liana Lang. Liana, welcome to the show.

Liana Lang (01:22):
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

AJ Roberts (01:24):
We're glad you're here, Sarah. We're glad you're here too. This is our first one together.

Sarah Jenkins (01:28):
I sure am. Thank you, Liana. Thank you for being here.

AJ Roberts (01:31):
So let's jump right in. You have quite a fascinating story, former attorney and now paid media specialist. You own one of the biggest education paid media sites, Ad Skills. Tell us, how did you go from attorney to basically buying traffic on the internet?

Liana Lang (01:52):
Yeah. I was one of those people where you're in university and you got to think "I got to be somebody." And parents are like, "Well, you got to pick like doctor, accountant, lawyer, something like that." So I went into law school and I practiced as a lawyer for about almost 10 years. And-

Sarah Jenkins (02:13):
Oh my word, your parents said, doctor, a lawyer, my parents said, "Please get an A or a B or something." Your parents seemed way better than mine.

Liana Lang (02:21):
And the thing is, there was only one other lawyer in my whole family, so it was a bit weird for them that I went into law school. But I did it and I figured, hey, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I figured at least with law school, it teaches you how to think and figure stuff out. So I can figure out the rest later. But I ended up practicing litigation and then I moved into in-house council at one of the big banks here in Canada called TD Bank. And I was literally kicking people out of their homes because we were doing mortgage enforcement and all that fun stuff.

AJ Roberts (02:56):
So 2008 was a fun year for you.

Sarah Jenkins (03:00):
Well, so I'm Canadian. I understand that, and that sounds awful and horrible, but at least you did a really great job at your job. But continue.

Liana Lang (03:08):
I think so. I think so and obviously I'm thankful for the whole experience because it really taught me a lot of things. It did also teach me how to really relate to people because actually I think by the time files got to us, sometimes we were the only humans that they felt would really listen to them. And so I really learned a lot from that as well. But eventually what happened was I became too good at my job. That's what I tell myself. So they restructured me because I did put in a whole bunch of efficiencies and things like that. But after I had my son, I came back from mat leave and I was restructured. And I'm sure if anybody's gone through that, you go through shock and then you feel like I lost my whole identity because I didn't understand about being an entrepreneur at that point. I didn't understand any of that. My whole life was just looking for this identity and I had been this lawyer for several years and that's who I was. And all of a sudden it was just gone for me.

Sarah Jenkins (04:09):
Well, I think you were probably a wonderful employee, but what decided to make you and your brain pivot from taking that mat leave with your baby to turning the lawyer that you have into an entrepreneur?

Liana Lang (04:21):
So while I was trying to figure out what I was going to do, I went to a session with somebody who was speaking, her name, Carissa Reiniger, who was also a Canadian and one of the first, I think, female entrepreneurs to get to a million dollars. And I realized I was actually a frustrated entrepreneur this whole time because I'm actually a horrible employee, actually.

Sarah Jenkins (04:41):
We all are, right AJ?

Liana Lang (04:42):
I had to embrace that. So actually I started off again, very safe. I bought a franchise. I bought a digital marketing franchise only because I was terrified of going out on my own. 'Cause I [inaudible 00:04:58]-

Sarah Jenkins (04:58):
Oh, I heard the Canadian. Why did you decide to buy a franchise? Where did you get the money? Start a little bit smaller. Let's explore.

Liana Lang (05:06):
Savings. You just got to dig into what you need to do. And I thought, "Well, it's just like having a job. It's just that I own it and they have a team and everything like that." And so I was in it a little bit, but again, I'm not a good employee. I wasn't really as happy with all the rules they put on me. But I learned how to do SEO, I was doing website design, I was doing paid traffic, and I thought I was doing okay, but I was playing very small potatoes. I was like, I would shake in my boots if I had to ask for $500 a month retainer or something like that when you first start. And I met this amazing Facebook ads guy, David Schloss, I don't know if any of you know him, but we were actually working on a project together and at one point he had said to me, "Hey, you should go back into Facebook ads", because I had stopped for a little bit.

(05:59):
He's like, "You're really good." I was like, "Really?" He's like, "Yeah, you should do this." And I was like, "Well, I don't know." And he says, "Well, if you want to learn from the best, you should check out Justin Brook. He's trained Molly Pittman, all these other people that I only just watched online and were almost like superstars to me in the internet marketing world." So I went and found him because I'm like, "I want to learn from the best." So I bought his program and at the time they were offering a scholarship. So I went into there as a scholarship and I remember that I actually applied the first golden nugget I learned from him and it was for a new client and it was for a webinar, I remember this. And I started getting 80 cent leads. And at the time, the program I bought allowed me to talk to Justin for 30 days or something like that.

(06:48):
So I messaged him, I was like, "Is this good?" And he is like, "That's incredible." And I just kept sending him more stuff because all I did was I learned what he was teaching. I applied it to what I already knew, and I just kept sending him more stuff. I had a couple of problems and he was there and the community was there. I posted a ton of questions and that was my introduction to Ad Skills. And I started doing so well that Justin and other people started referring me to other people because I was so vocal in the community, I wanted to help people. But I also asked a ton of questions and I shared all my struggles inside of there, just running ads and what was going on.

(07:24):
And people kept saying, "Oh, you're so good. You're so good." And it just opened me up to another world because I also, I learned how to also ask for what I deserve to be paid. None of this, I don't know if it's a woman thing, but I was always afraid or feeling not worthy. And that's a big thing that Ad Skills also taught me as well.

Sarah Jenkins (07:46):
Hey, I'm here for you, girl. I get it. The women paid thing, I congratulate you for asking for what you're worth though.

AJ Roberts (07:52):
Yeah. So let's unpack that a little bit because there was several things you said there, I was following the threads, and basically in the beginning you knew you were an entrepreneur, you had that sense, like, "Oh, okay, I was so good at my job." But you also thought outside the box where you made yourself essentially, "Oh, well they don't need me because I've created these systems and stuff." That's what an entrepreneur does because we see the inefficiencies and things and say, "How do we make this better?" And then ultimately, how do we stop doing this as a job? How do we free up our time?" So you already had that, then you went the safe route, you felt like, "Oh, okay, I'll go safety." But the same thing, too many rules here. You probably saw inefficiencies, was ways to do it better. And then you took that leap of faith over here.

(08:36):
So although you were afraid of asking for what you were worth, because you were technically building your confidence, what gave you the confidence to invest in yourself? Because I think that's for a lot of people who are creators, a lot of times there's things they want to do, there's things what they do to make money, and then there's what they want to do, but for some reason they're not brave enough to goal in on them. So what gave you that confidence to say, "Okay, I will go try this franchise", say, "Oh, I will go invest in this course?"

Liana Lang (09:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because I think it's interesting you think that it's a risk that I took and I look back at it and I think, "Wow, it was a really safe decision", because with the franchise, they said, "Well, all you have to do is take orders and deliver stuff, and we have a system and somebody will make appointments for you." And that's when I first learned about how you have to pay for lead gen and appointments and things like that. So I was like, "Okay." And they had a sales training, so they had all the support. And so I thought, "Okay, let me dive into that." Of course, it's not all roses once you get in there, but I thought, "Hey, I can do this." And I just started selling. Obviously I'm outgoing and I followed the system, but with Ad Skills, when I came over here, it was the same thing.

(09:49):
I go, "Oh, okay, what do I need?" I really believe that I'm good at this, so I want to take the step. But what really sealed the deal for me was that I had this community of masters to fall back on because in my head I was like, "Okay, if I screw up, it's no big deal. They got my back and hey, I can ask Justin who promised me, I got you, I'll help you." And a couple of times I was like, "I'm not sure about this. I'm not sure about that." He gave me an answer. Boom. I went into it and I started telling clients too, "Hey, I'm part of Ad Skills. There are all these experts in there." And to my surprise, my clients were like, "Wow, you go. That's awesome. We want you around more because you're doing this."

(10:30):
I thought it would take away from my authority and expertise, but they leaned into it, which I was always surprised about. So that's how I saw it as, and then I just figured out how many clients I had to make to make my investment back and pretty much, yeah, I did that within the first month or two, so.

AJ Roberts (10:48):
Yeah, I love that thinking. I think the key takeaway there is like you said there was essentially a roadmap. Someone had created something. And so even though from the outside someone would say, "Oh, you're taking a risk." From your perspective, it was just like going to college. "Okay, I'm going to go through these years. I'm going to get this degree, then I'm going to go on and I'm going to get my master's, and then I'm going to go on, I'm going to work for a firm." And it's like as long as there was a path for you to follow, it gave you that confidence because you weren't really taking the risk on you, you were just applying somebody else.

(11:16):
And then the community or the support structure around that gave you that confidence to move forward.

Liana Lang (11:23):
Yes.

AJ Roberts (11:23):
I think that's really key for people who are course creators to actually understand is that the... Obviously the course has to work, but if you really want people to take action, which for anybody listening, you've accomplished amazing things, but you are the client everybody wants. You're actually going to do what we say. The support side of it is just as important. I think customer experience is something that a lot of people don't think about. They think about creating the best product, but they don't think about how do we actually get people to implement this? And I think, you experienced it and you shared that.

Liana Lang (11:56):
Yes. And it was still scary in some parts because I was the primary breadwinner in my family as well. So there definitely was pressure, but I think that pushed me to do this and to go all in. Like you said, "Just take massive action."

Sarah Jenkins (12:11):
So when did you see your first return on your investment? If you're going all in, it's your family, you're the breadwinner. That's so incredible pressure. I've done it myself. It's not great. It's actually incredibly stressful, which I admire in you, but at what point did you see the turnaround of what you were doing for the return for your family or your business?

Liana Lang (12:30):
Yeah. Well, as I mentioned, when I joined Ad Skills, I was absolutely not asking for enough money. And so that got fixed first. And so I really think that, I'm just trying to think back because I can't even remember how much I paid, but I think it got paid back within the first two months because when I joined, and then I said "Okay", I remember the first time I asked for $2,500 a month, and somebody said, "Gladly, I'll pay that for the services." And so that was the first client I got after I joined Ad Skills and then it just went up from there.

Sarah Jenkins (13:06):
To understand now at the $2,000 month range for the skills that you brought, that's an amazing deal for whose purchasing that. Do you get that now?

Liana Lang (13:13):
I don't know.

Sarah Jenkins (13:14):
Okay, great.

Liana Lang (13:16):
Back then I was just like, "Oh, I want to help people." And I would feel... I don't know if anybody listening feels this way, but I would feel I want to help them and then I would feel bad. And then, "Oh, what if they can't afford me?" Or, "Oh my gosh, they need to do this in order to pay for me." And I just kept seeing myself as an expense, but I desperately wanted to help people so much, and so I had that rescuer complex for a really long time and that I would almost want it more than some of my clients, which I know now is very dangerous.

AJ Roberts (13:46):
And there's also that American mindset or Western mindset that is you have to work hard to get paid a lot. There's this concept that if you take a client on and you're not working 40 hours a week, well, how dare you demand what a full-time employee would? It's very difficult for a lot of people to get out of the hour to hour mindset and to get into the result mindset. And it's like if you can wave a magic wand and it happens at a click of a finger, what does it matter how much time you spent? So if you want, let's say you want to have a full calendar of 10 phone calls a day, if that's how you do it, then if someone puts 10 phone calls a day on your calendar, what is it worth to you? And if that's worth, let's say a million dollars a year as a business, how much of that are you willing to give up?

(14:32):
Are you willing to give up 10%, a hundred grand? Doesn't matter how much time it takes someone, but it is a mindset that takes a long time for people to overcome. And I think most people go through that where it's not until they fill their schedule and they're working themselves to the ground and there's no more room for expansion, do they usually say, "Oh, okay, there has to be a better way", and then start to move to a different mindset. If they could just leapfrog that in essence and say, "Okay, what you did", which was you would put yourself in an environment that said, "Hey, what you're doing is not right. You're undervaluing yourself and it's only going to lead you down a path." And because you had trust in that community, you said, "Okay, well I'll ask for that."

(15:11):
Now, you could've got a no, it might've taken you, but when you get that first yes, it changes everything. And I've had this conversation with people before when I've taught them how to sell from high prices. I'm like, "What are you selling at now? Okay, just ask for a hundred dollars more." And when they get their yes, as soon as you get one yes, you go up another hundred until you get to that point that I'm telling you to charge. Because what they find is their close ratio doesn't change. And so they go, "Oh, I still close one out of five or two out of 10", or really good people are closing five, six out of 10. And now they're charging significantly more and the outcomes they're delivering are not usually that different. But the great thing about charging more is it does allow you to deliver a higher level of service so you actually can be better as a service provider than if you charge less.

Sarah Jenkins (15:57):
Well then-

Liana Lang (15:58):
Absolutely.

Sarah Jenkins (15:58):
Look, if we're charging a certain amount and you get this many clients, you get 10 clients, and then those 10 clients have a hundred clients each, and you want to get to, now you're at what, 10 times 10, those many clients. And now you say, "Okay, I want to charge more", because your reach is so much bigger. What you're doing for one client, what you're charging so little for reaches those clients too. So you go a step further and you say, "Okay, what am I worth for these clients to reach those clients?" Now you're helping a multitude of people.

AJ Roberts (16:27):
So I've had this conversation with a couple of people where it's like it seems as if in the beginning it was easy. They just followed the formula and everything worked. Was that the case for you? Is it just paint by numbers and it's all working out great?

Liana Lang (16:43):
Well, no, it wasn't. But like I said, there was a system that I would follow to the T, but this was back in the day. I remember I would go around town, I would have somebody book appointments for me, and I would go physically to them. My husband would drive me, I would go with binders and stuff for each one because I had a system and I would have them all stacked up and he would just drive me all over the place and I would do my appointments, and I was trying to get 10 meetings a week, and I did that until I was booked up and didn't need it and then had to figure out how to get more over and over again.

(17:16):
So it wasn't hard. But the thing is that I got enough little success in the beginning to keep me going. So it wasn't that I saw nothing for a long time, which I know sometimes happens to people, but I just kept doing that. And then once I started doing much more ad buying, yet I started off with smaller campaigns, but then I got bigger and bigger and bigger, and it's still tough. It's not easy every single day. Even now I'm working on one campaign today, it's just not converting. But the difference is that I have confidence that we can figure it out. I think that really is it.

Sarah Jenkins (17:53):
When you know where to look, you've learned. You know okay, this is not converting. Why isn't it converting and you know where to look to change it to increase your outcome.

AJ Roberts (18:01):
I think what's important there, especially with what you said. You said, "It's not hard, but it's hard work." And something that I used to have the thought process that people, they must be doing everything and it's just not working. And what you usually find is they're still in the dream phase, so they're still thinking about driving around to all of those businesses to get the 10 appointments and that fantasy they live in, because if they start and it's hard and it's harder than they think, well, now they're in the game and they're playing and they have to figure out how to win. But if they're on the sidelines still creating the playbook, they can live in this fantasy for so long. What you did was you had the playbook and you didn't try to rewrite it, you didn't try to look for how it's going to fail. You just went and executed.

(18:47):
And like you said, you had some success which gave you the confidence to take that next step. Interesting enough, you mentioned there about that, and I think a lot of people have that experience with paid ads. They'll try paid ads. It's easy to spend money with paid ads, it's easy to get traffic. It's hard to turn that traffic into a return on investment to actually make money from it or actually have conversions. What do you say to those people who know that paid traffic is the right way? Because essentially you get to buy your customers. And so you can go out and buy as many as you can afford, but a lot of people are so scared because they've either had that bad experience or they don't want to burn through the money when they first get started.

Liana Lang (19:29):
Sure, I totally understand that. And I actually end up working with clients usually who have been burned by somebody else. So I've seen a lot of not great things happen. So I think there's actually two things. First of all, for the media buyer, what I'm seeing is a lot of times media buyers also don't set themselves up for success. So I actually turned down a lot of people that I speak with because I say, "Well, you have to have this, this, this in place." And one of the most important things, actually, I just had a conversation with somebody the other day, I said, "I know you want to pour gasoline on your traffic, but what I'm seeing here is you don't have anybody taking care of your landing pages. You don't have anybody measuring, doing OnPage optimization. As I'm telling you right now, that's a big leak in the bucket. If I start to pour gasoline on, it is going to end up in disaster for all of us. So you tell me once you get that in place and then we can talk."

(20:23):
So I will make sure that there are things in place that I know just makes more sense and also will be a better return on investment for that, for the owner or for the CEO in terms of the traffic. And I just find a lot of meaty buyers, they just go head on in. And also they work on funnels that are not proven and they just pour in a lot of paid traffic before the funnel's actually ready. So on the paid me to buyer side, I find that's a problem. And then on the other side of things, when it's your program and you want to start putting traffic to it. Again, a lot of times there are brand new funnels, never been tested or they've only had friends and family buy, so they think, "Oh, no problem. I'm going to make millions." And not realizing that there's a big gap between warm traffic or even organic traffic and cold.

(21:12):
So it's also understanding that and understanding too, that you need to set aside some money that you're willing to lose, especially in the first month. I usually tell people, we're probably not going to be profitable this month because we have to do a lot of testing. We have to figure stuff out. And it's very different when you have cold traffic coming in. So to me, it's a bit of both, and both sides have to work together in order to have a phased approach and for them to really understand what to expect happening, because I think that's really one of the problems is that people feel burned because they had a different expectation about what the traffic was going to do. Traffic is not some magic silver bullet that's just going to magically transform a really bad offer or magically make a ton of sales and improve your conversion rate. What it does is it amplifies the good and it amplifies the bad.

Sarah Jenkins (22:05):
So I agree with you. We've done sales funnels [inaudible 00:22:07] I'm saying this for a friend, "Someone else I know have done sales funnels which did not convert, and our friends and family definitely bought." And so there's obviously multimillion of dollars there, but if you don't have the conversions with your friends and family, it doesn't always mean it's going to convert and it may cost you, so you got to trial and learn.

Liana Lang (22:23):
That's right.

AJ Roberts (22:24):
Yeah, one of my first products was a Google advertising product, and I remember testing it and losing money. And the great thing was that the person I was learning from, they basically said, "Okay, now you have your actual results. What would have to happen in order for you to not lose money? What would have to happen for you to break even?" And so looking at it like that, and I think that's important what you said. People need to go in with there's a test phase, and that test phase is to gather data and then that data will reveal to you what the next thing is. So if you have a funnel, and let's say there's five steps in the funnel and your collecting of the money happens at step three, and there's two steps before that. Well, if you are driving, let's say a thousand visitors a day, well, how many actually get to even the point where they can see that there's an offer?

(23:18):
Because sometimes, you get down and 30% go from step one to step two, and then 30% of that 30%. So you actually look at it and then there's a 10 people landing on that page each day and it's not converting. Well, now you've got to say, "Okay, well we got to wait until a thousand people see that page to get an accurate number, but at least a hundred", so now we have to wait 10 days. And most people don't think about things like that. And they say, "Okay, I'm going to go buy a hundred thousand visitors." But it's like, "Okay, that's fine, but then you have to see what happens and then decide, okay, where do we need to spend time?"

(23:51):
And it could be step one or it could be like maybe we got too many things in front of where we're collecting the money. And actually Justin was, I consulted with him a long time ago on a funnel, and that's exactly what he said. He was like, "Before you drive traffic to something other than the sales page, just drive it to the sales page because you may find that the conversions, because you're getting more people there." And from that, interesting enough, people have started putting almost their offer fully into an ad so that literally the person's basically going to a checkout page once they click the ad. And you're seeing these things happen because of the way attention spans are and stuff like that. And I know you guys are big on the testing and things like that. When does somebody know that a campaign is not going to work? Let's say you do a test phase, is there any red flags that say, "This is just not ready to continue or even try?"

Sarah Jenkins (24:46):
So wait. I'll say, we've talked about conversions and clicks and walkthroughs. What do you do specifically for your client that would make this question make sense? We're talking in generalities about clicks and revenue and ad spend, but what have you done specifically? What does your business do?

Liana Lang (25:08):
Oh, what do I do specifically for a client?

Sarah Jenkins (25:10):
Yes.

Liana Lang (25:10):
Yes. So I'm known for doing Facebook ads. I do a little bit of Google. I actually have a team now that does Google Ads, but I am really known for Facebook ads and organic social media lead gen.

Sarah Jenkins (25:24):
On what kind of business.

Liana Lang (25:26):
That's my bread and butter. From mainly B2B, coaching, info products. That's my jam. I love webinars, I love lead gen. That's just something that I've had. And interestingly enough, I don't work with lawyers. I could never jive with that. Everybody's like, "You need to go do this stuff for lawyers." I was like, "I could never get it to work", but I love doing coaching funnels, high ticket funnels, that type of stuff. So info product stuff. I just love doing that kind of funnel.

Sarah Jenkins (25:55):
And I apologize, we may cover this in the intro, but what exactly you do for your clients and how it may work. But I feel like we've been talking to generalities and so I wanted to make sure we hit home on exactly what you do for your customers that makes sense for your conversions.

Liana Lang (26:10):
Absolutely. I usually like to tell people that I help them get as many clients as they want, period. Because I really look at it as more solution oriented. What do we need to do to get from A to B? And it just happens that most of the time it is through Facebook advertising because they can get the traffic a lot faster. And despite all the frustrations we have with Facebook, it's still pretty good at finding the people we need.

AJ Roberts (26:35):
So going back to that question, and now we have specifically the demographics and the platform, what are the red flags that you see early on that says this campaign isn't ready? And then if you can't expand on what are the white flags that says actually this is a campaign we should run with and optimize?

Liana Lang (26:57):
Sure, that's a really interesting question because one of the things that I've been really focusing on the last couple of months is how to use ads to look for very, very early signs of success or failure, as early as possible. And coming out with different ways to do that in micro tests so that we're not spending $20,000 in finding out, "Oh, well this doesn't work." But in general, when I'm looking at a campaign, I look at things from the top down. And also I liked if there is a warm audience, like a list, or hopefully they've actually done stuff on organic and we can use that audience first. I'll test the warm audience first. Because if you can't sell to your existing list or to your own community, then to me that's a huge red flag that there's something wrong with the offer. So if I can, I'll actually run just a small budget campaign to the warm audience and see what happens.

(27:55):
Are they opting in? Are they adding to cart? What are the tiny, tiny little early signs that say this is actually has something, or there is no life on Mars. And so that's the first point that I look at. When we're taking a look at campaign as well, if for example, we're running things and we're trying different things and literally nobody's putting their email address in or nobody is clicking on the button, then at some point we're going to be, "Hey, you know what? This is just not going to work." And sometimes that does depend on how much money we have to spend in this testing phase and how badly do you want it?

Sarah Jenkins (28:32):
I have a question. So when somebody has that, let's say they have no solid leads, they've gone the warm list, they're like, "Hey, here's my offer, here's what I'm going to promote." How do you decide if there's something wrong with their sales page, if there's something wrong with their emails, or are they missing something on the landing page that needs to convert? How do you talk to your clients when it's something that's not converting?

Liana Lang (28:53):
So again, I like to go from the top down. So the first thing I look at is they have to see the ad. You could have the most amazing funnel and the most amazing landing page, if they don't stop and look at the ad, forget it. So I optimize the ad first, and I'm pretty good at that, at getting the click-through rates. I like to see at least a 3% click-through rate on the ad overall. And I always tell people I like to see at least a 1% click-through rate on the link. So it tells me that, hey, we are able to stop the scroll because Facebook, people are just, they're looking at cats and kids and memes and things like that. We're interrupting their day, so can we make them stop to look at the ad? And then number two, can we make them click through?

(29:35):
So let me get that fixed first. So it's this process of elimination. Let's get that done. Now, okay, they're clicking through. Well, let's see, what are they doing after they click through? So that's when I ask my clients, do you have something installed on your site to actually measure what's happening on there? There's programs like Hot Jar or Microsoft has a free one called Clarity where it shows you how long people are staying on the page, are they clicking on buttons, all that kind of stuff. And because if I know that there's a lot of interest from the ad side of things, then we can say, "Hey, what's happening on the landing page?" If there is an email opt-in or something, are they putting their email address? And if they're not, then I'll say, "Okay, something's not jiving here." It's either the message in the ad doesn't match the landing page, or we need to test some headlines.

(30:22):
And usually we have to work together on that. And again, we're still just going from the top down. Once we can unlock that next step, get somebody to opt in, great. Now what are they doing next? It's like what AJ was saying, where they've finally gotten to that third step, and then take a look at what's happening on there. And then after that we go, "Okay, well now what do they do on the emails?" Et cetera, et cetera. Same thing if it's a webinar funnel, are they opting in? Great. Then, are they actually showing up to the webinar? Great. Are they staying? No. Are they buying? No. And then it just keeps going from there. But I try and have my clients to break it down in terms of just phases, and I just think of just unlocking things from the top down. Otherwise, it's too overwhelming to think, "Oh my gosh, I got to fix everything." Just try to eliminate different things.

AJ Roberts (31:06):
Yeah, I'm an optimization nerd, so you're speaking my love language here. But the thing I really like about it is this concept of micro. Micro testing, micro results. Because I think what a lot of people do, especially if they're in a startup phase, is they try to get everything done first. And we've had people who have said they've spent two years to create their course. Well, how do you know anybody wants it? That's a scary thing. So we have this concept of pre-selling your course and then delivering it live the first time, because if, like you said, if nobody wants to buy it, then there's no point in doing it. But if someone buys it, well now not only are you forced to create it, but you need to create it. So the cool concept, the cool idea with this that I'm seeing is if I was going to run paid ads, it's like I don't need to set up a whole funnel.

(31:51):
What I need to do is decide what the first action I want someone to take. Okay, can I get an ad that gets someone to click? And if you get a yes on that first test, then you can move to the second stage. So now you actually build your marketing in stages and it's a little less stressful, it's a little easier to maintain, but like you said, it's till you can get that first thing down. Can we stop the scroll? We're going to keep testing images, so we're going to figure that out. And then we got to figure out how do we get them to click? And that's the cool thing. What's interesting about this though is it takes time. It takes time, and it takes effort. And that's where most people don't want to do is that is-

Liana Lang (32:26):
That's right.

Sarah Jenkins (32:26):
Straight out.

AJ Roberts (32:27):
The time and effort. So for you guys, and I think it's good to give people realistic ideas, how long does it normally take someone to dial a campaign in to the point where they can now scale? Because that's the big thing I hear with people. They're like, "We got to scale our advertising." It's like, well it doesn't quite work like that. Normally you can't just normally spend more and make more, but there's obviously a tipping point. You've done this for so many years now, your whole company is teaching this and educating people on this. What is that tipping point?

Liana Lang (33:02):
It really depends on how strong the backend is, because if nothing works, it could take months before you can scale up because you can't figure all the emails and all that other kind of stuff. But on average, I find that, at least in my experience, and maybe it's because I've been working with people who have really solid funnels, but I can usually start to scale up within the month, like after a month we're testing. And nowadays, I'm brought in any way just to scale up because it's already working. But back in the day, I remember when I would just be working from the ground up. Sometimes some of them hit really fast. Within two weeks we're like, "Yep, there's life here. Let's just start going." And you can't scale from zero to a hundred right away anyway. It's still gradual, but to me it just depends on how many steps are involved and how strong the backend is.

(33:56):
If you have really good email follow up honestly, I've been seeing, especially recently, especially because ad costs go up, the better your email follow up is, and your backend is, it's so much easier to scale up on the front end. You can take the higher costs in the end because you're getting so many sales in the backend and you can get through those times when the sales just really dip down because whatever's happening in the world and they just keep buying in your follow-up sequences. To me, that's really where all the magic happens.

AJ Roberts (34:28):
Is that what you mean when you say backend, is the follow-up marketing or are you talking about specific programs?

Liana Lang (34:32):
Yeah. After they get into your system. So if they've set it up on, if they have a whole cartridge system for example. They've got their landing page, you put it in there and then you've got all the emails going and you know what they're clicking on, and you can segment them and send them in all different really cool places depending on what they're doing. If that whole machine is working and making more and more sales, you can take the pressure off of the front end. 'Cause that's another big mistake people make is they think, "Oh, the ads have to do everything. Putting up a webinar, that ad has to make somebody go in the webinar, watch the webinar, buy my stuff, and then upsell them into my mastermind program." It doesn't work when the ads wrong. You can't put that much pressure on an ad. The ad is just designed to get people to take the next micro step, micro commitments.

AJ Roberts (35:20):
Yeah, that's great. And obviously Kartra is the whole purpose of that is to do follow up marketing and automate it so that your life's a lot easier. But with the follow-up marketing, are you also running retargeting ads and things like that? Because that's the hardest thing with follow-up marketing is if you only get, and a good open rate nowadays is 30%. Well, there's still 70% of your audience that aren't seeing your message. So are you doing a lot with ads to the audience that you've already captured?

Liana Lang (35:48):
Yes. I believe that you need to take a holistic view of your marketing. So whatever amazing things you've got going on with your email follow up sequences and all the offers and stuff you're offering in the backend, make sure that you are amplifying that with organic and paid traffic. Do the remarketing as broad as you can on as many platforms as you can. And what I don't see people do as often is use your organic as well. I saw somebody who was really clever. She actually takes all of her the email nurture sequence and just shares them in her Instagram stories and literally, like here's a summary of what I did, and then by the way, three or four stories. And then the last story is like, "Hey, if you want to get this in your inbox, blink in bio." So I thought that was really smart, and why don't more people do that? It's free. Just do that as well just, but it should mirror what's happening in the backend.

Sarah Jenkins (36:42):
Well, we actually did that to the Paid To Create. We did a Paid To Create podcast, we did a Paid To Create promo where we say, "Hey, we are offering you the system that will help your business." You're Paid To Create something, whether you're a lawyer, you're Paid To Create documents and wins in the courtroom, whether you're Paid To Create... If you're a chef, you're Paid To Create that cake, whatever. So we did the Paid to Create sales thing with our customers, and then we're now changing into a whole podcast, changing it forward. We're bringing it forward, but we're always tweaking and changing to hit every part of that part that you said, whether you get the ad spend and then where does it convert? If it doesn't convert, where are you getting them on the back end? If you have 30% that's clicking, where's the other percent going?

(37:21):
So we're always trying to think of the next thing that is that Paid To Create, like you said, you should be using something that puts your business forward in every aspect, in every little area where you think, "Oh, this isn't working. Scrap the whole thing." No, no, no, no. Tweak. Tweak. Right?

Liana Lang (37:37):
Exactly. Exactly. And then see where the gaps are. Sometimes I'll even just do a retargeting ad on Facebook that's an engagement campaign, and the only message is something like, "We just sent you this, whatever it is. Did you check your inbox?" And then you'll see comments going like, "Oh, I didn't get it. I didn't get it. I never checked my email and I want to change my email address." So it's amazing. You can get more people that way.

AJ Roberts (38:03):
That's brilliant because you get the engagement and then their friends see it and you get free advertising for that. Is there any more golden nuggets like that for retargeting? Is there anything else that you've seen? Obviously sometimes testimonials are really good for retargeting, but is there any specific campaigns that you'll go to when you work with a company?

Liana Lang (38:22):
Yeah, I just really want to make sure that I mirror what's happening in terms of the follow-ups. So that's what I see too often where the media buyers going, "Okay, I'm going to retarget. That's great. I'm going to remind them about this offer." But they're just doing it independently. So I always want to know what's the message? What are the best open rates on the emails? I'm going to take those subject lines, I'm going to take that message and I'm going to put it in a retargeting ad so that again, it just feels like a more holistic experience for the customer. That's really how you win. It's not really a trick, but I just find that that works the best. And you just have to just remind people. I just think we over complicate things a lot, but I'll use engagement campaigns as well.

(39:08):
By the way, I also like to use Facebook Messenger because that has a higher open rate. So if they're not going into email, send them into Messenger and then ask them to click through on whatever you want to click through there as well. So I just try and how can I surround people as much as possible and then again, keep making them feel like it's not disjointed in terms of the journey that they're going through with your brand.

AJ Roberts (39:30):
I think that's important because it goes back to the ad in the first place. One of the early tricks I learned with Facebook Ads and I was one of the first on the platform using them when you could get penny clicks, it was so awesome. But one of the early things we learned was on the landing page, use the same picture that you had on the ad and it increased convergence. And it's like you said, we'd be trying all these different things and it was literally just use the same picture-

Liana Lang (39:53):
Still works.

AJ Roberts (39:53):
Use the same text. And so it's like those are the kind of things that we overthink. We are like, "Oh, we got to do all this different stuff."

Liana Lang (39:59):
That stuff still works. That's my first go-to add every time.

Sarah Jenkins (40:02):
Don't confuse your customer. If they're buying Nike shoes, don't show them a pot or plant, get them the Nike shoe, just keep on doing it. It's fine.

Liana Lang (40:09):
And they don't remember anything anyway. We have such short attention spans. We give them way too much credit.

AJ Roberts (40:15):
You mentioned earlier when you transitioned, one of the reasons was you basically put yourself out of work. With AI technology and everything that's coming, a lot of marketers obviously are terrified. I see it as it's man and machine now creates this ultimate power. But what are your thoughts on it? Are you using it in advertising? Has it helped? Is it hurting?

Liana Lang (40:35):
Wow. I've been using AI for a while actually, and I know it's more mainstream now.

Sarah Jenkins (40:40):
What?

Liana Lang (40:40):
I have. I've been using it to write copy for, gosh, at least a year I would think. And the thing is, and this happens to media buyers too, if you have a job where you're basically doing the function of a tool, you are going to be replaced by AI. Absolutely. Because what does AI do? It just makes us more efficient and helps us to do things a lot faster. So I think that it's actually forcing all of us, including our school system, don't get me into that right now, but I think it's forcing all of us to think at a higher level to be more strategic, because now I don't have to worry about pressing a button. I don't have to worry about bringing all this data together. I see it as if... I'm a Star Trek next generation fan. I don't know if anybody here is, but remember when you would watch how they work with the computer?

Sarah Jenkins (41:29):
No, no, no Star Wars, Star Trek, don't even. Oh my God and Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, I'm on board.

Liana Lang (41:35):
Okay, here we go. But remember how they would work within the holodeck or work with the computer. They're working, they're asking questions, they're asking to combine things together. The human is controlling the creativity and how things are going, but they're using the sentient computer to do all the complex stuff and do it a lot faster and compare stuff. And that to me is what I'm seeing right now with AI and what I see the future is like, and I hope I can get to that point. It really is having a list of assistance that I have now that just helped me with anything.

AJ Roberts (42:09):
For the research component of stuff, it's been huge. And I was just showing Sassy Dazzle over there before we got on the podcast, a new script I'm working on for a video where I literally, there was another video that's like the complete A to Z guide. And so I just went and said, "Create an outline based on this video." And it essentially took the video, broke it down into the components with the subcomponents, and I'm like, "Oh wow, now I'm not going to use that transcript because I don't want it to be the same. But now I have this outline that I didn't spend any time on", and now I can go and say, "Okay, create an intro based on this." And it wrote it and it was pretty bland. I said, "Okay, rewrite this to be more witty and entertaining." And all of a sudden I had this funny script.

(42:53):
And so I'd done about eight pages of script in about an hour by the time Andrew got here and started reading it to him. And he's like, "This is pretty good." I'm like, "Yeah, your first and second drafts are going to come from AI and then you are going to polish it, put it all together, make it sound good." I did get some interesting ones. I said, "Make it more witty and entertaining." And I got a pirate response. It was like, "Ahoy there, matey. Are you ready to make some booty online?" And I was like, "What in the world is this." So there is still some limitations to it, but I'm a huge fan of it. And I think what you said is key. If you are just doing a job of a tool, data entry or something like that, then yes, it will replace you.

(43:31):
But if you are editing or more than anything, your creativeness is what creates a good output, so asking great questions is going to become a skillset. And you mentioned school earlier, we don't have to go down that rabbit hole, but the general school system that most people put their children into doesn't teach our kids to be critical thinkers or ask great questions. And so I think that more than anything, what AI will do will create a separation in society and we'll see a lot of systems that are in place and have been in place, like schools, start to take different forms because people are going to start to realize what is valuable versus what they have been told is valuable.

(44:11):
So it's super interesting. What's exciting about it is it does make things easier. You can go in and say, "Create four versions of this ad", and now you can run a test and you didn't have to sit and try to think, how can I spin this four different ways? You take a winning ad and you can create variations of it. You can take a winning formula that someone else has used and you can say, "Hey, rewrite this for a doctor, for a lawyer." And all of a sudden-

Liana Lang (44:34):
Absolutely.

AJ Roberts (44:35):
Yeah. So you can double up on your winners and whatnot.

Sarah Jenkins (44:39):
Oh, it's super valuable. The holodeck is going to take over us all. I mean, my kids are failing out of school and now failing out of homeschool. And I'm like, wait a minute. So I put you in the same school at home. We got to think outside the box. We got to think about what do you want? What are your objectives? What are you trying to achieve? And then go with what they're interested in. I wish I'd had ChatGPT, I would've excelled at my grades and my mom would've been less worried, but I'm doing okay now because of testing and proven concepts, [inaudible 00:45:06] behavior.

AJ Roberts (45:06):
I love the arguments like, "Oh, it's cheating." Well, is a calculator cheating or they don't let you use a calculator school?" I don't know any engineer that would ever do any calculations without using a computer.

Sarah Jenkins (45:17):
Look, our teacher said, "You'll never have a calculator in your pocket." And I was like, "Want to bet Mr. Trundle?"

Liana Lang (45:22):
That's right.

AJ Roberts (45:24):
So cool.

Liana Lang (45:24):
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

AJ Roberts (45:27):
That's great. Let's go back. So earlier you mentioned that one of the first courses you built was Ad Skills, and I know you had your agency, but now you're the CEO of Ad Skills. So how in the world did this happen? How did you go from student right to now owning this? And I know your vision because we spent some time recently in Vegas and we've talked several times and it's amazing what you have planned. I'm so excited. But I would love to hear that journey because I think a lot of people similar to you, they may not be someone who wants to start something from scratch, but they may be someone who comes in and grows it to a whole level that the previous person didn't own. And Sarah's doing the same thing with our company. So two are like Star Wars fans, Star Trek fans-

Sarah Jenkins (46:16):
Soul Sisters.

Liana Lang (46:16):
We go.

AJ Roberts (46:16):
Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Jenkins (46:19):
But I agree. I want to hear where you've come from, where you think it's the most magical part because you don't have to start from scratch necessarily, Paid To Create is you get Paid To Create what you already know, what you're already good at. But let's say you're the CEO that's taking over, or you're the CEO that wants to continue to grow something past its potential, what would you do? What did you do?

Liana Lang (46:38):
Well, I love that you used the word magical because it literally was magical because everything that I've done up to now is so in alignment with my core. I told you that I love to help people. It's such an amazing feeling, and that's why everybody says like, "Oh my gosh, you just help people", because I just love it. And that's what I did in the community. What I do is I actually have two or three communities that I spend my time in. That's just how I would do lead gen as well. I go, "Okay, these are the ones I'm going to focus my time in", and Ad Skills was one of them. So every single day, and I've done this ever since I've been member of Ad Skills, I go in, I check in the community and I see how can I ask questions, how can I help?

(47:18):
And I don't hold back. There's not like, "Oh, DM me for the details". I just give it all out there. And that's what started to catch Justin's attention, that and also the results that I was showing. But he saw that I just kept showing up and people were going, "Oh my gosh, you were in there all the time." I was like, "Well, it looks like I am, but I'm only spending about 15 minutes in there every day." But years go by and I would do that, and then I would get elevated in the community because they saw, oh, she's making the community better. So then I became a moderator, known as a guardian, and then they started to ask me to do some trainings or come in on the summit. And I did. And when I did, people would be like, "Oh, that was great. That was great." So they're getting a lot of positive feedback going, "Okay, this person is doing something for our community."

Sarah Jenkins (48:04):
That's so nice of you.

Liana Lang (48:06):
But I was getting so much out of it. Ad Skills literally changed my life with not just Justin, but the people in there. I've met partners in there, I've done projects with people in there. I've hired people in there, it's so many amazing people, and I just wanted to give back. And that's what a lot of people feel about Ad Skills. And the reason I emphasizes is because that is the reason why I am where I am today. So I worked my way through there and they realized, "Oh, this is somebody they can trust. This is somebody, she just wants to give back. And the community loves her." And at the time, Justin and Shauna were thinking about what's the next step for Ad Skills and who can help them get to that next step? And I know they've been talking to a couple different people and he approached me and we just started talking.

(48:53):
And this is why I think it's magical, is because I have a lot of other people in my life that do a lot of business deals, and I would ask for advice. I didn't follow any of their advice here. They're like, "You need to negotiate this and this and this and make sure you're protected." And I just felt my intuition. I was like, "This is not the right way to do it. This is not this type of deal. It's really based on trust, and it's based on just how I am inside of Ad Skills." I don't have to turn myself into this litigator, negotiator person who's going to do all this stuff. I just let it go organically, which is probably... I'm sure it's the worst business advice I could give anybody, but I felt-

Sarah Jenkins (49:29):
No, no, no, no. You establish credibility first. You establish the trust by giving first. We call it a freemium when you say, "Hey, here's a hundred ways to improve your products." And someone says, "Okay, I want that." And they give us their email. We've established trust. We're going to give you something that helps your business, and all we want is your email and you can unsubscribe tomorrow. You established credibility first. The lawyer in you probably didn't want to but you stepped in and did all the work.

Liana Lang (49:53):
Yes, I did. And then we just kept talking and just organically it grew. And then he brought me in to run the pro certification program, and I took that over, and then I took over as the whole program director. And then he was like, "Okay, you're ready. I'm going to announce you as CEO." There was obviously a lot of planning in the backend and all this other legal stuff we had to get done, but that's essentially how it happened. And again, just as I was growing a business, it's not all unicorns and rainbows, but I think because that I built a strong relationship and we still have a strong relationship that we work through stuff. We have tough conversations sometimes, but as Justin said, "I love the tough conversations because it means that we're moving forward." And so it definitely hasn't been easy, but I just feel like I'm home. Do you ever feel that way? You just feel like you're in the right place at the right time.

Sarah Jenkins (50:48):
Well, but you earned it.

Liana Lang (50:48):
I still have clients-

Sarah Jenkins (50:49):
You may not have felt that way in the beginning, but you got credibility initially by asking the right questions, by being involved immediately. And then, like you said, Justin's like, "Oh, well, you're the CEO." You're like, "Oh my God, that could never happen." Someone doesn't go to someone said, "Hey, you're my new CEO." But you've earned it. You've built it. You put yourself forward and you put your information forward for free or for earns, and then you've established yourself as this credible expert in the community.

AJ Roberts (51:13):
Yeah. What I also love about that is that you enjoyed being a part of the community first. So these are my people, and instead of saying, "These are my people, let me go see if I can take some and go do something completely different-

Sarah Jenkins (51:26):
You did that too.

AJ Roberts (51:28):
You basically were like, "I'm going to stick around."

Sarah Jenkins (51:31):
AJ did that too, by the way. He did that with his fitness marketing, and he did it with me personally. And he puts himself first and does the, "Here's what I have to offer you." And it's completely honest and raw, and it's exactly what we need. And then now it's like, "Well, shoot, what else can you do?" And it's a multitude of things.

AJ Roberts (51:47):
And I think it's important because one of the things I'm noticing is a lot of people hear the word entrepreneur and they think they have to start something from scratch. And there's different types of entrepreneur, and it's important to know who you are. And there's entrepreneurs who can start things from scratch, but then they need someone else to take over. They're quick starts, they have great ideas, but follow through execution is not their strengths. So at first, they have to find someone to help with that. And eventually they say, "Well, I want to go do something new", because that's their entrepreneurial spirit. Then you have entrepreneurs who can see something and say, "Hey, this could be so much bigger." But the CEO doesn't see that vision. So they have this vision because it's sparked by this idea.

(52:29):
Now, what's important for that is that you have a skillset. Media buying is a skillset. Being able to look at words and say, "That's going to convert, that's not going to convert", there's a skillset there. It's important because you don't have to start a business to be an entrepreneur. If you have a skillset you can find and go into a business and really be entrepreneur within a business. And I think it's something that a lot of people, they get told, "Oh, if you work for someone else, you'll never get rich." Well, that's not true. And we know it's not true because otherwise, the CEO of Disney would not be the CEO of Disney. He makes a lot of money. So the point I'm trying to make is that I think it's important that if you are someone who you consider yourself a creator, creator doesn't mean you have to go do something from the beginning.

(53:17):
You can find communities, add value, and you will find positions for yourself. Find ways to use your skillset. You'll get clients from those communities. And I just think it's a different way of approaching. It's moving to the relationship. It's relationship marketing where you're building a true relationship before you ever ask for anything. And I'm seeing this work more and more and I'm seeing businesses do this more and more, and companies growing, and it's great examples of this. Tony Hsieh with Zappos, he never started Zappos. He came in and took over. Elon Musk with Tesla. He didn't start Tesla, he took it over. He had the two brothers or whatever.

(53:54):
So even arguably Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg. It wasn't his idea. He made it happen. He made it happen, but he had to pay a lot of money to the brothers whose idea it was.

Sarah Jenkins (54:05):
That's where it match.

AJ Roberts (54:06):
So the point I'm making there is I think it's a beautiful story and a great example of when you are passionate about something, you have the skillsets and you show up. Show up and oftentimes, without actually any foresight into what the future may be, I guarantee when you took that first course, you didn't think to yourself, I'm going to be the CEO one day. Right?

Liana Lang (54:25):
No, never. Never. You're right. Never.

AJ Roberts (54:27):
Yeah. So it's just a beautiful journey. Is there anything we haven't covered that you think is important for people to know about paid media or buying clients?

Sarah Jenkins (54:36):
Or being a woman CEO with no experience?

Liana Lang (54:40):
Oh, man. We've probably gotten a bit of the tip of the iceberg, but I just think in... I've worked with a lot of different entrepreneurs. For a time, I was also helping to run the Inc. Business Owners Council with Lewis Schiff, so I've learned a lot about entrepreneurship through my whole journey. And I always ask what these entrepreneurs who created a company from their kitchen table to like $150 million, what's your secret? And most of the time, the answer I get is persistence. And that's what I... I just see too many people just give up too soon. You have to be consistent and persistent, and you will get through if you're following a system. You got to hang in there long enough. And it's a shame. I just see too many people give up too fast.

AJ Roberts (55:28):
The delay gratification. And a lot of people don't think like that. I mean, sport is a great example. Teams take 20, 30 years to rebuild and win a championship, and there's fans that stay with them the whole time. They're the faithful. And then there's the team hoppers that go, whoever's the latest winner, "Oh, that's my team this year."

Liana Lang (55:47):
Totally.

AJ Roberts (55:47):
So we see it everywhere, and I think it's key. And I think unfortunately, some people listening will get turned off by everything we've discussed today, because long-term thinking, long-term commitment, persistence, these are the keys to success. Where could people follow you on socials?

Liana Lang (56:08):
Sure. So if you are on Instagram or TikTok or anywhere like that, I'm known as the Lead Gen Queen, so you can just look for me over there, or you can just look for Ad Skills and I will find you.

AJ Roberts (56:22):
Yeah. She's really good at this advertising thing, so if you-

Liana Lang (56:24):
That's right.

AJ Roberts (56:25):
So if you find her or Ad Skills, you're going to be followed around.

Sarah Jenkins (56:29):
She'll find you.

Liana Lang (56:30):
That's right.

AJ Roberts (56:31):
I've enjoyed having you here. We'll have to do part two and dig into some more stuff. Like you said, we just got to the tip of the iceberg. But thank you so much for being here.

Sarah Jenkins (56:38):
I agree. Thank you for your time.

Liana Lang (56:39):
Thank you for having me.

Sarah Jenkins (56:40):
We'll have you on again. This has been fun.

Liana Lang (56:42):
Absolutely.

AJ Roberts (56:43):
Talk soon. Bye-Bye.

(56:44):
I just have to tell you about Kartra, the marketing platform that has seriously transformed my business. You know how running a business can be insanely time-consuming. Well, Kartra has been a game changer for me. It's honestly like having an entire marketing team in my pocket. And what I love most is that it automates all the tedious daily tasks for me, from marketing to sales, to even customer experience. I can't believe how much time and energy I've saved since I started using it. And get this with Kartra I can create websites, funnels, courses, membership sites, email campaigns, calendars, surveys, you name it. It's made managing my business so much simpler and more affordable. Honestly, I can't recommend Kartra enough. If you're curious, head to PaidToCreatePodcast.com/Kartra to start your trial. Trust me, you won't regret it.