Paid To Create Podcast
Fireside chats with some of today’s best and brightest Creators
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Paid To Create Podcast
S2E6 Turning Moments into Magic: Elevating Customer Experiences
Dive into the world of world-class hospitality and learn how the principles of unforgettable service can transform any business. Sarah Jenkins, who recently toured some of Europe's most iconic destinations, shares how the small details and genuine connections she experienced abroad have reshaped her approach to customer experience. This episode reveals why building deeper relationships with customers is essential in a market where loyalty is everything.
We discuss the power of empowering your team, looking at how great brands and businesses turn every touchpoint into a memorable experience. From luxury hotel vibes to practical tactics, we cover what it means to bring consistency, care, and thoughtful decision-making into your brand’s experience—because satisfied customers start with a well-prepared team.
Finally, we explore why personal touches and milestone celebrations can transform customers into lifelong fans. With insights on using love languages and learning from top brands like Zappos, you’ll discover actionable ways to elevate your customer service, create deeper connections, and stand out in competitive markets. This episode is packed with real, actionable ideas for anyone in the business of building loyalty and trust.
You have to understand the majority of people walking around with a lot of stress on their shoulders. So anything you can do to make them feel good, and the more often you can make them feel good, is going to build that experience, build their feelings towards you, the relationship Welcome everybody to this episode of Paid to Create. I'm AJ Roberts and alongside me is Sarah Jenkins Yay, she's back. Sarah has been well. She was in. You were in Europe for.
Speaker 2:I was.
Speaker 1:Where did you go? You went to a whole bunch of places, right?
Speaker 2:Well, we can't get to Barcelona with one plane ticket, so I might as well take a plane ticket across the U? S and then across the ocean and spend some time in London. Hit a pub like you would probably love. Yeah, you're in London, and then you went to Barcelona and then our cruise took us to seven places, or six places, france, intensive, and then ended up in Monaco.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I was. I was asking Sarah um about her trip and everything and uh, she, you had mentioned about the experience and just how different it was. And obviously you've experienced luxury, you've stayed in beautiful hotels, five-star hotels over here. You've eaten at beautiful restaurants, we've stayed at hotels traveling for business and it's blown us away. But you said it was just different and I figured we'd talk about that a little bit today and kind of get into customer experience.
Speaker 1:And you know, I just heard a speaker, will Will Girado. I knew I'd screw his name up. He wrote the book Unreasonable Hospitality. I heard him speak at the Patrick Bette Davis conference and I was blown away at his approach to hospitality. But we've been focused on customer experience since we started working together with different businesses in the software company. That was something we were always emphasizing was like even though we're selling a software community experience, it's all part of uh, making um, the, the overall product. It all goes into one. It's not separate, it's not different, it's not. It's not like oh, we sell a product, you get the product, and now there's nothing else, we have to go deeper. But you were saying just how different it was and it was a whole new level and opened up your eyes to what exceptional customer experience really is, so I'd love to hear more about that.
Speaker 2:I didn't even understand that there was going to be a difference. That's why the shock was so prevalent to me when we go to walk in. Besides, I've had many, many experiences with the highest end resorts, the highest end restaurants and hotels for fun, but also for business and stuff. So I'm used to all the posh, fancy stuff that you can get, but this was a different level. We did go to the Ritz in New York downtown and that was one of the ones too.
Speaker 2:But there's always a little drop in the customer service at some point that you notice in all the little tiny things, all the little tiny details. It's like you know, if we call ahead to the Beverly Hills hotel and say we're showing up, then they will call you by name. When you pull up, they know what kind of car you've got and all that stuff. So it makes the um, the service, exceptional until it's not Like they're all. I mean, we're all Americans, we all have the same language, all the same, like high fives and stuff like that, which is cool. But if you go over to, you know, London, and I was at the Four Seasons in London and then I was at the Hotel de Paris in Monaco and it was incredible, like the tiny, tiniest detail, from the exact little hair clips, that the women wear the matching heels and uniform to the smile, and you know our pleasure when they service you.
Speaker 1:It was just pristine in a way that I've never thought we could have. Yeah, so let's back up because I'm sure there's some people that have not experienced it. Not everybody's had that opportunity for various reasons. But let's just talk about kind of your U S experiences. Um, you were sharing there's a, a four-star hotel close to where you live and you've stayed there during power outages and things like that so that you had running water and all the fun stuff that go there. But you were saying you know, when you don't know any better, it's like like wow, but now you've had a different experience. But maybe just explain what the typical experience is versus like a, a regular hotel, like a hilton or something like that, the four seasons or one of these you know upper, upper echelon hotels. What is that difference? Because usually it's not necessarily the rooms or the food, the restaurants that are there. It's usually the way you're treated, the different services they offer, those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:I think it's the training, I think it's the SOPs and protocol for the staff. It's like they're directed to do and say certain things and act a certain way and they can't deviate In the US they can. So when you go to even the nicest places, when you start to be a little bit more regular, you start to make a little bit more comfortable friends, they're immediately drop all the protocol because you're just like them, we're just friends now, right, and it does kind of rest the experience a little bit. When you're just being yourself and then they start being themselves, it's like well shoot, it takes away from the hotel's ability to say this is our standard so it's a difference in standards I think, so well, it sounds like I haven't been to those hotels in Europe, but what it's sounding like really is just like consistency.
Speaker 2:Huge, huge consistency. So when we were on the boat we did the cruise for all these little places in France and it was super, super fun. But on the boat they had a consistency issue. So we were in the owner's cabin, we got the back quarter of the boat, a living room, our own bedroom. It's the best thing you can book on this cruise and you get a butler and man.
Speaker 2:The consistency is on what time is this or when are we docking here, or when can you go and ask for a taxi. When you're getting off the boat they said, oh, you make sure you ask us, we'll get you a taxi. They're really hard to get in Monaco. I was like, great, get up in the morning. We go down, like, hey, how do we get a taxi for Monaco tomorrow? And they're like, oh, it's too late. What do you mean it's too late? Like well, we you could have called before noon yesterday and then we could have gotten it for you. I'm like, well, you didn't say there was a time thing, cause we put it in a piece of paper in your room. You put 19 pieces of paper in my room't. Care, I'm off the boat. Like the consistency issue on the boat was huge for me, and the consistency issue when I saw the amazing consistency in the entire staff at the Hotel Monaco was crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you think that comes down to? Um, so cause you, cause staff, I think is key. Like, one of the things with an experience is you have to have staff buy-in, right. It's kind of like core values. If the staff doesn't live by the core values, they're useless, right, and you have to be willing to fire and hire based on core values. And unfortunately, you know, if you've had a company for a long time and you start to add core values, you probably have people that are great employees that don't fit the culture and you have to make tough decisions when it comes to an experience.
Speaker 1:The staff has to buy into that. They have to feel empowered to be able to do stuff in that situation. You know, and, uh, certain companies have this philosophy there's no such thing as no right and they have to figure out how to get around it. It may be at a cost, an exceptional cost, but hey, we can't give you a taxi, we can get your private driver. You know things like that.
Speaker 1:It sounds as if the staff weren't empowered in any way. It was like. You know, this is, this is the protocol. You missed the protocol. I can't do anything like and they don't have like a an empowerment level to be able to do that versus, um, some of the other experience you had shared is kind of like they were like absolutely, absolutely, Like, we'll take care of that, and it's like you didn't know at what lengths they were going to behind the scenes and so you even checked in on some stuff and they're like oh yeah, we got you taken care of miscommunication or whatever. But, um, that's what it sounds like, and it seems like on the boat they're like the, the people who were there to serve you. They could only serve you to the limits they knew was available right and they didn't talk to each other.
Speaker 2:So we're on the boat and we, we. They said, hey, will you get a discount If you get like hair and nails done? Like if to book it like today, cause we get full? I was like, okay, I have to book it today. I don't even know my schedule, but hold on, um, sure, let's book tomorrow. Uh, I'll do nails and we'll both do a massage or whatever. And they're like okay. I was like, well, I booked nails and massage. Well, are you going to miss the captain's dinner? I was like, yeah, I'd rather get my nails done than sit down and have dinner with a stranger, I don't know, that's driving the boat. We'll get there. Probably. If I don't meet the captain, we're not going to dinner, we're not going to tell him now, because he seems offended or hurt. And then I said, okay, great.
Speaker 2:And then they called me and said, oh, we're missing you for your nails. Like I had him cancel them or move them to tomorrow. Well, what about your massage? Like I had him move that too. Well, we didn't get that note. I'm like that's not my problem is it are you, do you have availability for us tomorrow? And they said, well, yeah I'm like okay, great. And the captain came by, or the butler came back, that, and goes, okay, great. I heard you moved your nails and I was like yep. And he goes, the massage is like perfect. We go down to our massages and they're. And I said, what about, are the nails after? And they're like what do you mean? I was like, oh, my word, even the person on the phone didn't take note of when I need my freaking nails. I was like, forget it, you know what? I'll just have crappy nails, it's fine.
Speaker 1:So it's important this because it you know, obviously you've paid a lot of money to be in the cabin. You're in to have the butler, to have the experience, like you, maximize the experience, right, and um, you're able to do that. And unfortunately they have a lot of, as Jordan Belfort would say, ducks working for them. Right, they just quack. There's no Eagles, there's no leadership there, right? Lack of breakdown of communication.
Speaker 1:All of that obviously comes from the top, because you know, and I get frustrated at restaurants where they take your order and they don't write it down, as if it's a badge of honor that they can memorize it. Look, I don't care if you have a piece of paper and write it down, but I care if I get a tomato on my food because I don't like tomatoes and I don't want to have to pick it out. Right, if the dish comes with tomato and you can't remove it, I would rather you just tell me. But when you don't write it down I assume you forgot no-transcript to enhance the experience it's actually taken away. So how did you feel in those moments? You know about the company and the entire. You know like experience you were having. You know, is it like I want to get off this boat as often as possible.
Speaker 2:No, it makes me not want to do that one again. I've done it twice, so I was like I liked the experience the first time. We had the same sort of inconsistencies in the first day or two that me and Andy did it, and it was how do we control the situation for our benefit now, because they don't know how to help us. So then me and Ricky same thing. It's like the same thing. It's like the guy is knocking on the door going hello, hello, we're like shut the fuck up. Either just come in or leave.
Speaker 2:Like so we had to be like hey, if you're gonna come in, just come in and then knock on the bedroom door because we have a living room. Come in, you have to sit at the door and yell make us get up to answer the door. Like we don't want to. Or knock and say, hello, we don't answer, we'll call you if we need you go away. Like so we had to discover some of our own needs or wants specific to their irregularities or their lack of consistency, cause we're like we have to make them the boat our own. But then I said, okay, if this is the highest level we can get on this boat and we've got these little things that make it more uncomfortable or more just like pushy. Um, let's try something else. Maybe in a year or two we'll do a different cruise, maybe we'll go a little higher up and be one of the lower end customers.
Speaker 1:We's experienced your service at the highest level one of the highest levels to be an advocate, right, you know. And now you're like well, I'm going to shop around because I want to do the experience, but not necessarily with this company. And I think that's very important, because I think sometimes you add things to a business for um, systematization, automation.
Speaker 2:Free sales, offer nails and a discount first day. Fine, don't script the appointment.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and when you add stuff you have to be careful that it doesn't take away from the core experience, right, if your trip didn't have those things right and it was just on you and you called and they're like sorry, we're booked, you'd be like disappointed but like okay, like move on.
Speaker 1:But because of their inability to communicate and handle it, it creates a negative emotion, negative feeling and, interestingly, I was on a mastermind call yesterday and we were talking about buying and different types of buyers and at the level these guys are at, I was curious. I'm doing research, so I was curious, like you know, as affluent people, like, how do you like to buy services? Like, how do you like, like, if you wanted to hire an agency, what would you? And they literally said when I have money to spend, I don't want to jump through hoops to have to give it to you spend, I don't want to jump through hoops to have to give it to you. And so they were talking about, you know, these people that have webinars you have to watch and then calls you have to book and you know and and you can't get on the calendar for two weeks. And these things are created to systematize and to you know, put you in front of a sales guy and to do all those things, someone at a high level, that is. Time is limited, all those types of issues they deal with on a daily basis. They literally just want to be able to text you, ask you a few questions and then move forward or not move forward. Their buying cycles are short because they have the money to invest and they understand speed to get results In this situation.
Speaker 1:Similar thing you're on this cruise having this experience, but you're given a deadline to book results In this situation. Similar thing you're on this cruise having this experience, but you're given a deadline to book something. So you do it hesitantly because you don't want to miss out. And then you're confronted with the reality oh, actually you just double booked yourself. So now what do you want to do? You shouldn't have had to make that decision. He should have said oh, we're supposed to have the captain's dinner tomorrow. Let me talk to both sides, let's figure out. We'll figure out what you can do. Maybe we'll have to move it, whatever, but I'll get back to you.
Speaker 1:And you would have been like, oh, thank you. You would have appreciated that, but instead it was put back on you to make these decisions right and oftentimes, if you look at a buying cycle of someone purchasing something like I'm thinking of, like countdown times and things like that, they can be a benefit but they also can be a negative. Because people get buyer's remorse, right, and if they're pressured into something that they're not sure they want or the refund is going to be greater, right, and having done launches versus evergreen launches always have a higher refund rate. Why? Because people buy for the pressure, they buy because of the noise, the scarcity, and then they get it and but they have buyers remorse because they bought, maybe they weren't ready impulse, not on actual desire for, for the, for the results.
Speaker 1:My point is, with that is, you probably would have been fine if you didn't get your nails done on the boat. I'm sure, when you obviously you've been on that trip before but normally when you go to a hotel, normally when you go to on vacation, your, your brain isn't where am I gonna get my hair and nails done? Because you're on vacation, you don't have your regular people like that's. That's a regular thing that you do, um so. So when you're traveling, it's usually not something high on your priority list.
Speaker 1:Maybe if you're going out for dinner and it happens to be a salon at a hotel, you're like, oh, I could book in and you know these kind of things, but it's not necessarily a top list checklist. That's a perk. So I think it's important for people to think like that and understand that sometimes simplicity is the key to a great customer experience. Simplicity is the key to a great customer experience because the less friction, the less moving parts, the easier it is to maximize that, and then you can add stuff on. So let's talk more about, like the whole trip, because you're on the boat but then you're in these different places and you ate at certain restaurants and things like that. How were those experiences in comparison?
Speaker 2:um, well, it depends. Different parts of like. Marseille is like a beautiful, huge french town, so if we went um, english wasn't going back and forth very easily. It's a bigger city. So we sat down to eat. There's a menu of like six items and we asked the guy like uh, what do you think? And he's like uh doesn't even know what we're saying. But we're like this one, he's not good. And we're like okay, and it was excellent, it was a good choice.
Speaker 2:But we didn't. We communicated without the language, which was great and he was really actually trying to help us, but he did not speak any english. We did not speak any french, which is cool because we picked a france intensive uh. But then the other one we went to, we were couldn't read the menu right and we're like shoot, how do we figure out? Because ricky can't have milk. So I'm like how do you figure out what has milk in it? Can't look at the ingredients, you can't even ask them what is milk in it. We were googling google translate how do you ask for no cow's milk?
Speaker 2:and then we're in corsica and they said I should have just moved one after the other no, no, no, no, okay, no, no prostitution, none Got it, it's just cheese. It's fine. But we asked him on the Google Translate you know how can we make sure there's no cow's milk in the dish? We have a cow's milk allergy. And then he actually wrote back on the translator. You know, corsica cheese is actually made from sheep's milk and goat's milk mixed. There is no cows on the island. We're like awesome.
Speaker 1:We got the best cheese ever. Yeah, it gave you the freedom to be able to eat.
Speaker 2:And then we pointed two or three things we ordered. He goes these are, they're big, big. I said, okay, then we'll pick two of them and they were incredible food and we were so happy. Now I actually have on my list. We went to the Verissimo Cheese in Del Mar to find the same freaking cheese. It was so good and it was something we can have in every meal and it was delicious and we were excited. We're like their wine. Their Corsica wine tasted kind of like watery, but then we're like you know, with your lunch. It's very tasty, it's very different. It's their wine and their cheese that we got to eat and we were frustrated. We couldn't even find a restaurant pick our menu items. But then when we got it, it was awesome. It's a great experience.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned the wine there. It just reminded me of Mexico and how they chill their red wine, and I believe some red wine is supposed to be chill. I'm not a wine expert.
Speaker 2:Chill, not cold.
Speaker 1:But yeah, like straight out of the fridge, like a mall back, and I took a sip. This is when I was drinking. Uh, I took a sip of mobeck and I was like why is this ice cold? But it was interesting because, like, in that situation, you guys didn't speak the language. It could have been a negative experience, right we was.
Speaker 2:We're starving. We couldn't find a place to eat. Like we don't want to go to one place that's crowded, because everyone decided to go the nearest place to the dock, right, and then we wanted to go. We don't want to go to the place with one person in it. We're like we can't even speak to anybody. But let's just figure it out. And we're starving. We finally just caved and picked the place that was packed full of people and it was awesome food.
Speaker 1:But because but in that situation, because of the waiter's willingness to be patient and to have a different approach and I'm sure they've had people before and they've but I mean, in those situations like it's frustrating, like I get frustrated when my kid is trying to communicate to me in English and I do not understand what they're saying and it's really hard not to like to get upset, right, to stay calm and be like use your words, like work through it, breathe, work through it, especially if they're upset a little bit too, and now the words like you're not speaking English, like come on, buddy, I want to help you, and so you're hugging them, you're giving them love and at the same time, you're still trying to figure out what they're saying, it can be very frustrating. So I can imagine on both sides you're hungry, you want food. It's frustrating. Can't read the menu? What the hell you don? Came into our restaurant in our country. They don't speak our language. Now look in america. If that happens, people, you should speak american right, like these other countries. They don't do that.
Speaker 1:And so to have that experience gave you a good experience at a restaurant, despite a language barrier, despite a difficulty that should have caused a negative experience. It actually turned out being positive because not only did he educate you to a fact that allowed you to have freedom and choice of food, but it also like he interacted and worked with you guys to get what you wanted and needed. Um, were there any, any experiences that were like a surprise, that like it was exceptionally above and beyond, to the point that you were like whoa I, this is. You didn't have to do like it's almost like wait, this is too much right that was monaco, okay, everything in monaco, and we did the the hand thing.
Speaker 2:But even we couldn't get taxis from the taxi line, like and the taxi line, because we didn't book on time, because we didn't know about the time limit, whatever. Um, once we got the taxi, though, he put the charge up so it doesn't ding, ding ding when you say you're where you're gonna go. That is the charge. It doesn't move and there's no tipping you can, but it's like okay like lifted uber yeah, it's like we're black or something.
Speaker 2:Um, and then put our bags in. Whatever we get to the hotel and there's a separate spot for the bags to go that they can bring them through. He drives down to that spot where the bags goes. Let me get me your name's. Got the bags, wrote the ticket because you made a drive you to the front door, right there he goes. I'm happy to do it, Just get back in. We're like no, we can walk to the front door. He's like are you sure? Like just want to make sure you're happy.
Speaker 1:We're like yeah, we can walk five steps. I've never had a driver that enthusiastic ever. They pull over, get out. I'm going on to my neck. Obviously uber black or, or if you have a private driver, it's different, right, because they're wearing a suit. They hand you a card. When you need something, give me a call. But, like in general, that was a whole town and then we got on.
Speaker 2:Um, you know anything we did. We went back into the hotel soaking wet, around the top of the city bus tour and ricky cannot stand in the lower level of the bus because he's too tall and it was packed, so we're like we can't stay on the first he's like six, five or something right he's six, seven six, seven he's 519, but we're in the first level of the bus.
Speaker 2:I'm like we have to go upstairs because he's too tall to stand and there's no space, there's no seats and it's pouring rain. So I was like I hate the rain. I hate the rain. Fine, I give you a team player. We're going upstairs, upstairs, it's just a light drizzle, maybe Cool. So we're sitting up there. I sit in this puddle. I'm like now my pants are all wet. I'm like, okay, I'm doing great, doing great, not going to wreck our day. And then get to the hotel and we're talking about a reservation that they didn't confirm it, or one of the confirmation, confirmation, confirmation. But apparently they put it under Ricky's name instead of mine. You know, I made the reservation.
Speaker 1:You're checking your phone. He's not paying attention.
Speaker 2:He probably did text him or call him and not me, but we walked in soaking wet and the guy concierge she goes oh, um, are you in? Or we have umbrellas that we'd love to lend you, or we can get you a car instead of the city bus tour. Like what would you like? I was like a car, oh, okay. So we actually did that. The next day we booked a private driver to take us all around the city. He's like where do you want to go? I'm like I don't know when should we go. Go to this little spot, and he's text you, I'll pull right back around right here, the whole city. We got to do with a private driver, which was awesome, and but when they offered me the umbrella, I was like it's too late.
Speaker 1:Thanks, though, appreciate it, soaking wet it's interesting because if I was the owner of the cruise ship, I would be looking at these things right like you're taking. If I'm taking someone to seven different places which is you said you was destinations I would want a guide for each of those places. I would want ahead of time expectations, things you should know. Like you shouldn't get on the boat and be told, oh, if you don't book today, you won't get it. Like you should know before you go, and in fact, before you go, that at your level, the level of investment I'm imagining that it takes place. For that, I mean, I've looked at booking a Disney cruise for me and the kids and I know how much it costs just for a nice suite on one of those. So a luxury cruise to all of these different places right Now. My point, though, is just simply that they're missing tongue in cheek, they're missing the boat on what they could be doing for the level of service you have. You literally should have had a concierge person before the trip, planning the trip with you and breaking things down and like these are all areas of improvement, and the reason I share that is in the book Unreasonable Hospitality, one of the big ahas I had because I mean, I've studied a lot of customer experience stuff and gone through a lot of books, like you know, first 90 day, first 100 days, things like that. That changed the way I think about this stuff.
Speaker 1:But one of the things Will said in the book that legitimately was like wait, I've never thought of it like that. He was like you have to look at every interaction with a customer, from the moment they book a reservation to the moment they walk in the door, to the moment they sit down, to the time they finished it, like every single thing. He didn't call it this, but I realized these are conversion points, right, and at every, every moment you have a interaction is an opportunity to create a new experience. Most people don't think like that. Right, and one of the things he talked about was you know, normally when you go in a restaurant they're stood behind a stand, you know. You say you have a reservation, they look on a list, they find your name and then they tell you you got to wait, right, like okay, mrs Jenkins, hang out right here and we'll see you in a minute and normally it's pretty quick. Yeah, but that's not a great experience and I could be misremembering precisely, but what he said in the book was they got rid of that. They would text to confirm the person's coming in for their reservation. I don't know if they did recon to how to know who these people were, but the minute you walked in you were greeted by name and you were immediately taken to your seat. There was no going back and forth with a host trying to figure this out, trying to do that.
Speaker 1:But, as you're sharing and the reason I pause to point that out if those listening like they have that opportunity in their business from the moment someone gives you their email address, what is the experience to then they become a customer, to then become a repeat customer. You have these opportunities and it's not like you have to do a ton. But when you look at what most people do, what most businesses do in general, it's basically nothing. So here you are on this luxury cruise and I'm sure it is 10 times better than like a regular cruise, right? And yet, and yet it could be a hundred times better and they would be and maybe they are book solid because a little better is better than the not. But it's like being able to look in these situations objectively and say how do we make it so that when someone goes on this, when they get done, they're booking their next trip because this is a must for them?
Speaker 1:And I think that's something most businesses don't do, especially if they have a single use product or a one-time purchase. It's not a membership, it's not a reoccurring application. They have to continuously have. You think that marketing and sales is up until the point. Someone gives you money and the truth is you are marketing and selling forever because once that person gives you money, what it's told you is they like you, they trust you, they're willing to have a relationship with you and if they don't give you money again, well, you screwed up because you want to do it again yeah either your product sucks so bad they're not going to give you more money, or you just didn't give them an experience to give them a reason to want to continue on their journey with you at whatever point in time they could.
Speaker 1:And if you think about it, some of the best brands in the world, some of the most luxury brands in the world, in like they have like 20 30 year sales cycles I well, so we've got you know.
Speaker 2:At nordstrom's you can return anything, may have all these cool brands, cool high-end stuff, like it's a cute store with a great return policy um, nordstrom's actually has a really good book on customer.
Speaker 1:I can't remember.
Speaker 2:I think it's a nordstrom's way or something but, they have a customer service book to experience book as well generally very good customer service, but then me and marcus is twice that at least customer service, like glove hand holding. Let me get you a room and a sales rep to bring you your sizes, your colors, what do you like? Do you need some champagne?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, there's nothing worse than trying something on and having wrong size and then having to put all your clothes back.
Speaker 2:On, go back out of the room.
Speaker 1:Go out of the room to find the other side. Hope that nobody takes what you have in the room out because you don't want to carry the seven items.
Speaker 2:Yeah, clothes back on.
Speaker 1:They're way not as good as the nice ones or you can't get into them because all the doors are locked and there's no service rep there to help but they have a 30 day return window and that's it.
Speaker 2:We got some stuff, um, delivered and it didn't fit quite right and I just kind of forgot about it. And after a month or two I was like, hey, what do I do about like returning this and getting like a different size? The same thing, I like what I bought, but let's get like a size lower or higher. It was lower at this point, um, but the guy was like, oh, no, it's, there's no refunds, there's no returns. I'm like what do you mean? The tax one? I haven't even worn it.
Speaker 2:Like I just got it in the mail and I was out of town and now I'm back and I tried it on. It doesn't fit, it. Spend three days. I'm like, oh, that makes me not want to shop with you. But then I need that experience again. I do go back. I want the champagne, I want them to bring me four dresses my size and try them all in one go, and I've got a dress for dinner.
Speaker 2:It's a very different high end experience and that makes me think maybe I'm not the customer on this boat they're looking for. Maybe I need to switch boats because the expectation that I have is not the standard expectation of everyone else on the boat. Everyone else wants the captain's attention, everyone wants to go on the 8 am excursions. I'm not even awake until 10. Plus the time difference. So like I'm not the one that follows protocol for them to push, get your nails done for a discount. Maybe that's what everyone on the boat does need. They're all over 60. They're all retired. Nobody we met was under 60 or unretired. They're like oh, what do you do? I'm like, oh, you know I run software. I was like oh, what do you do? I'm like, oh, retired, every single time.
Speaker 1:You probably love the Virgin cruise oh.
Speaker 2:Adults only, and you know the Virgin brand. Their experience is second to none. Nothing, so, yeah, right. So I was like maybe I'm not the right customer for this cruise, because I don't want to be pushed into making a decision on a massage or nails and I don't want to be pushed to have a captain's dinner, as special as you may sound it to be. I don't want it. White knight right out, I'm not going that's interesting you bring that up.
Speaker 1:I hadn't thought about that. But it is important too, because if, if that does meet what their customers want, then that is the right experience, and I think it is. Now it might not be right. We don't know, because we have not sat down with the owners of the cruise ship. The owners of the cruise ship might not even know what's going on on the cruise ship.
Speaker 1:I see that on undercover boss and shows like that all the time, where they think they know because they have protocols and procedures, and then they go experience it and they're like what is going on here and the local manager or the person in charge has shifted things for ease or simplicity or whatever, but actually ruined what was supposed to happen. So we can't, we can't say it's not the experience they wanted or it is, but at the same time sometimes you have an experience a certain way and it is to be polarizing, it is to push people away that aren't supposed to be there, so so they have a budget and then they have a time limit on this boat and they didn't think of nails and maybe this maybe Agnes wants her nails done, but she has a budget.
Speaker 2:So you're like, hey, there's a discount if you book now, though, and we get booked pretty quick. So she's like, oh, okay. If they get their hair and nails done like every Tuesday if you don't push her to book something doing things nice for herself, like that. I don't think I'm the clientele that that boats catering to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's important too for you to figure out when you go through. Your experience, and I think I think that is something that people need to figure out is like what kind of experience do they expect? And you also have to understand like there's nothing really truer than you get what you pay for. Right, because when we look at budgeting and this is something that's important right, because a lot of people listen and are like, well, that sounds great, but I don't have all this money. You have to have a budget. You have to know, and even if it's 5%, that you give free will to create a better experience. You can do a lot with a little right, and so you do get what you pay for. And, of course, the more you pay, probably the higher expectation is for an experience. If you're just going to McDonald's and grabbing a burger, you're not expecting the guy at drive-thru to give you the same experience.
Speaker 2:Where are their white gloves.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But here's the thing If you wanted to compete like I don't know what everyone's business are who listens to this? Obviously, but you are in competition with other people the easiest way to separate yourself is if everybody else like, let's say, I was just consulting with a construction group they're all landscapers and things like that, and my brother has been a landscaper and typically the employees show up in jeans and whatever shirt they want dirty boots, you know, and it's a pretty standard worker. Look right, same as the guys we see on the side of the road with their vest on. Underneath is not a uniform, it's whatever they, whatever t-shirt they want, whatever that. If you wanted to separate yourself, right, you, you start to have a uniform, you start to have vans like versus a work truck that looks like it's got. You know, most work trucks get beat to hell, right. Well, what if you had a? What if your work truck looked pristine? And and the reason I say that is if you want to attract higher buyers, they're going to expect a higher service. But if you're also comparing people at a lower budget and one company stands out because they just look more professional, they look like they got their stuff together, like, you're probably going to pick that.
Speaker 1:So, even if you don't have a big budget, I think it's super important to look at what can you do to create that experience. You don't have a big budget. I think it's super important to look at what can you do to create that experience. Uh, it could be as simple as um. You know, for example, a lot of people listen, obviously our coaches and consultants and experts and things like that. That's our, our audience and our background.
Speaker 1:Um, like, sign up for a coaching program and you you're doing a, say, let's say, an eight week course. Well, there's nothing that stops you sending them a journal with your brand on and a pen and maybe a coffee cup and stuff like that, so that when they're sat watching your training, they're taking notes in the journal you gave them. But it goes a little bit above and beyond just a virtual experience. Now you actually sent them a gift, and gifts are one of the easiest ways to create a better experience, one of the love languages. I've stayed in a lot of hotels. We stayed in one in Mexico and there's a free bottle of tequila. Were there any gifts like that along the way? That kind of were nice little extras that places gave.
Speaker 2:Weird ones. They said there's some fruit in your room and then they'll bring you a little snack in the evening. But we didn't leave the boat most evenings. We just wanted to be back on the boat and have dinner and hang out with each other. We played Trivial Pursuit in my room for hours, Wild children.
Speaker 2:I know we're just party hardying and they said you get two bottles of alcohol for your room and we're like why? They're like, well, in case you want to have a drink, there's a mini fridge with like some juice or something in it and you can pick what you want. Bottle we have to bring you each beverage. I was like, oh, that seems like a huge waste of time and steps. Okay, fine, we'll pick two bottles, and we went through one in a week. We're like we don't need to go make our own drinks If we want one. We'll either go down to that or we'll get off the boat and go get a bottle of wine at the little store in France.
Speaker 1:Well, it might say something to their customer avatar. You went through one bottle. They said two a night. You went through one in a week.
Speaker 2:I'm like, uh, you know we did buy the beverage package. We were at the Atlas Bar a lot. We were very popular. They loved us at the Atlas Bar. We were playing games. We brought our ipads to play games in the atlas bar to get served drinks like we'd like another one, while we play our mickey mouse at the little atlas bar on the couch, ignoring everybody and each other.
Speaker 1:We're like I was playing our game well, you know, you should have tried to make friends. You could have found some people to play, like some. I'm sure there was a lot of uh, cribbage and other games like that. We did, we got invited to play.
Speaker 2:There was a hand of and I said I have to ask there's four nice little ladies playing, actually from canada. They mentioned whittier and I was like, oh, I know the place. Uh, and I said what, what are you playing? I'm like, oh, it's a game. It's got all these rules, it's no one's ever heard of it and they're like you can play tomorrow if you want to come down. I'm like I kind of do.
Speaker 1:I'm like maybe we should so maybe you were the right avatar and for those who didn't notice, she mentioned Sarah is originally from Canada, so she like snuck that in there, like oh, I know that. Yeah, it is interesting the gifts that people give, and I think that's something else Like. So I've talked about this before.
Speaker 2:I'm a gifts person. That's my love language.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're a great gifts person and I gift giving. There's two ways to do it. Businesses and most, most people are used to corporate gift giving. Corporate gift giving is technically promotional items for the company that can be written off as marketing expense, so they give you. So if a company gives you a hat with their logo on it, well cool, you got a hat and you might love that and you might enjoy that. You might like the hat and wear the hat, but it's really a gift. You gave the benefits you, because now they're a walking billboard.
Speaker 1:So one of the things with gift giving that if you are going to do it, you really need to think about like, like from the customer, like what is an actual gift you would give a friend, not what is a generic thing you give all the customers. And now don't get me wrong, people go nuts for t-shirts, right, like when I was, when I was heavy in the fitness world and go to the big. You know I still go to the Arnold to compete in the Olympia and I was just at the Olympia. People go nuts for a t-shirt and most of not even in their size. That's what's crazy. It's like they're a double xl. They get the medium and they're over the moon because it's free and it probably costs six bucks to make. So so maybe people do go nuts over little things like that, but I'm talking about things that they're going to cherish forever and actually become advocates and and they're going to tell other people and you know, I've seen everything from paintings to things like that.
Speaker 1:But the reason this is so important is sarah mentioned. She's a gift giver. We all have our own love languages. If you're unfamiliar with the five love languages, you're missing out. Not only is it going to help your relationship, but it'll help you build your company, because you need to understand that each person is one of these five language. You're usually two one primary, one secondary. Some people have a third but, like you're usually one of five and it's gifts, words of affirmation, uh, quality time, uh. Acts of service and physical touch yes, um.
Speaker 2:Every man Right.
Speaker 1:Right, yes.
Speaker 2:Secondary.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so it's one of those. But so when you're, when you run a business, and especially if you run a digital business, right Quality time Well, you're never with your customers, right? Oh wait, where's is there sick? What's? Words of affirmation?
Speaker 1:Like two of those the same that's all right, did I say I must've said words of affirmation? So, yeah, words of affirmation. If you don't talk to your customers cause you sold them a course that's pre-recorded, you do look very handsome today. Oh, thank you, I appreciate that. Gifts and quality time and acts of service and these things. Like you have to understand you don't know your customer's love language, so if you want them to feel appreciated, loved, cared for, you have to hit all five of those, right, and obviously it's different, but, like you have to do that with your employees, you have to do that with your customers and you have to start thinking beyond just the transaction, right, and I think it's very important to say that in today's world, because we're shifting and I don't know how accurate this research is, but it seems like they were saying about 60 of online purchases come at the recommendation of an influencer, right? Oh, no, why is that? Because the viewer has a relationship with the influencer. They follow the influencers life, they, they read their stuff and so that is one of the most influential voices in their life. Why is that important? What does the influencer have? They have a relationship with the person you want, right? And so if they buy your thing and you don't build a relationship with that person. They just go back to the influencer for the next recommendation.
Speaker 1:And I think it's very important to understand that, like we've really business has moved from a transactional world to more like a relationship world. People want to see companies with a face, they don't want blank. Like we've said this before, people don't follow companies, they follow people Right, and we're moving to a much more personalized world. And, yes, we can automate a lot of this with AI, with customization. We can do a lot of stuff to make personalization hands-off. But, at the same time, if you want to really build a sustainable, long-lasting business, you have to think beyond just the transaction. You have to move to the relationship. To build a relationship, you've got to hit those five love languages and I think that's super important. And the concierge, the butler, all these different things. You know the concierge, the butler, all these different things. They, they technically meet those. If you look at what they're doing, you know the acts of service going above and beyond the free gifts, the words of affirmation and confirmation now and where they drop the ball.
Speaker 2:That's hitting with each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They just needed one little system, software where they could make notes on the account. Um, cause, they gave us you know nine papers every day about where we were going and maybe recommendations to go to these three or four restaurants that are good, and then the excursions all start at 8 am. No, thank you. But they did give you some little pamphlet. But they could have said if you'd like blah, blah, blah, help, come down to concierge or call us or whatever, and we'll recommend in person to you situations that you want or need, whatever.
Speaker 2:I guess, like GoDaddy is really great with their customer service on the phone. It's like hey, sarah, you know we noticed this. Do you want to make it private? Like we love that you've got all these domains, you know, is this enough domains for you? Do you want to cut some out? Like, do you want to save some money? Like, service on the phone is amazing. They're very upbeat and on your side to help you. Which, great On Etsy, when you get some little you know pair of earrings that are handmade, sometimes they'll have a handmade little card or a little teddy bear, a little heart, like thank you for your purchase, like you're helping a mom at home, or whatever those little extra things that people do in customer experience, like customer service is one thing, they just want to feel heard. Most of the time they want to feel heard or they want to feel like you have an answer to their complaint, but customer experience is that next, that next level.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love how you said that. I think that's very important, because everyone has customer service. Sure, customer service is the expectation, customer experience is all of the things that wrap that into something that is extra, yeah, something that is extra, yeah. And so it's not necessary per se, but it's the thing that separates you and allows you to be successful over everybody else.
Speaker 2:You notice every time, every time something does something, customer experience wise, that is extra than normal, you notice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess, if you look at the power of this, you could look at Zappos, because Zappos competed with Amazon Eventually. I think Amazon owns them now, I think they probably they, but they they've kept them as their own entity. Um, zappos still exists, but how did Zappos compete with Amazon or any of the other online shops? Right, like Walmart, like Nordstrom all of these have online buying options. So how did Zappos separate themselves? Well, they had exceptional customer experience and I've gotten a tour there and gone through their trainings and stuff like that and some of the stories they sell.
Speaker 1:You know, like someone calls for customer support and and, um, you know they're angry or whatever, and the customer service person ends up talking to them for two hours and it is. They're not upset about the purchase. They got all this other stuff going on and turns into a therapy session or whatever, and a lot of business owners would be like what a what a giant waste. And a lot of business owners would be like what a giant waste. But then that person doesn't have a negative thing to say about you and they're telling everybody how great Zappos is and you know they're selling shoes and clothes. I mean, come on, but just, these are things you can get anywhere. You can get at the mall, you can get here, so why would you do that? And it was the policies they had and the customer experiences they have. That all starts with the culture that they have for their, for their team, and I think that's something that we mentioned earlier. But I think it is important for people to understand that this isn't customer experience, isn't something you can tell your staff to do and then you treat them like crap, like you have to have a work experience that is exceptional, so that then they thinking and you have to empower your employees to be able to create those things for the customers. And you know one of the easiest ways to do this and I think I got this from the book Unreasonable Hospitality.
Speaker 1:But one of the ways to do this is not for you to think of the ways to improve your customer experience, but actually have the people who are in the positions, in wherever it is on the path of the journey, to come up with the different things. And if you let them sit for a day, you know four hours or whatever in a workshop and come up with all the ways we can make this better. And then you come together and you say, okay, I'm going to give you another hour and you need to come up with even more ways to make. They will, and you'll be amazed at what your employees can come up with for you. They're team members, like most people take some form of ownership for a company, regardless of whether they're an owner or not, because this is the place they spend eight hours a day like giving their life for essentially payment, right, and so this is what they've chosen to exchange time for money with you. And so they want the empowerment, they want to be able to make these, these, uh, choices and changes.
Speaker 1:And when you do, when you don't give them that, you end up with what you had, which is people basically said I can't do that. And you're like what do you mean? You can't do that? Like I can't get it, I can't get a taxi. So you had a horrible well, not a horrible, horrible day, but you had an experience and I'm pleasant experience you'd rather not have. Nobody, male or female, wants to sit in a puddle and get wet. Like it's not a fun experience, right, because you got to change.
Speaker 1:Like I kept my attitude in check but then you find out I could have had a driver I could have had a free umbrella too a free umbrella or a driver and no and, but nobody on the boat either knew that or was empowered to make that decision for you, because they've been limited by what they are and you know it could be a limit, like you're not allowed to tell people that this is, we have a deal with the taxi company, we don't have a deal with them, so don't you know that? We don't know what's going on, but my point is is that you know those, that those on the boat have not been given the power to go above and beyond in all situations. There is no request from a customer that is unreasonable. There is nothing they could desire that we can't get. We might not have it on the boat, but the next stop we're going to get it for them, and there's things like that that it's super important because I'll share an experience.
Speaker 1:I think I don't remember what hotel it was in Vegas. I think it might've been the Nomad, or it could have been what is now. It was the Mandarin Orient, but now is the Waldorf Astoria. It was one of those two hotels, I think. But I had purchased, I had purchased something and I had purchased a shirt, and I noticed that once I got it. Once I got back I noticed there was a big snag on it how weird but I had no more time because of the conference I was at.
Speaker 1:I was not going to be able to go exchange the shirt, get it back in time to be able to do anything, and so I spoke to concierge and I said hey, here's my dilemma. Is there any way that, if I call the store and they have it ready, someone could pick it up for me? I'm willing to pay whatever I need because I needed a shirt I think I needed a shirt to present with and. But I didn't have time to go do that and they did it, and they just put it in the room and I came back at lunch and was able to get the shirt and do the presentation. I wish I remembered all the details, but that was one of those times where I was like you can do that for me. You know, I had an unreasonable request take an employee, go to a shop and exchange a shirt, and they did it.
Speaker 1:And that's the kind of thing that like again, like makes you want to go back, makes you want to have those experiences, and this was like a decade ago. That's why I'm fuzzy on the memories. But you know, it's one of those things that I think when it comes down to your business and it comes down to looking at what you have. It really is about being a champion for the customer and looking at them and saying, look and again, they have no idea of your monetary situation. They have no idea whether you've been saving.
Speaker 1:Like you mentioned, a lot of the people on the cruise are older. Those people could have been saving for 20 years to go on this. This could be a dream, cause I remember growing up, you know, we didn't have any money. Growing up, I the dream was always to be able to go to like Disney world or Disneyland, like you'd see the commercials, and it was like a dream, you know. But flying from England coming over, that's like a $10,000 plus trip. My family never had that kind of money back then, right, and so it was like the dream trip.
Speaker 1:And and I you hear families who they save up for for years and years and years to be able to do these experiences. So you never know. So it's always good to to to have that in mind and and operate from that place of that. If this is the only time this person's going to do this, how do we make it so that they are at least an advertisement walking talking advertisement for me, because they might not be able to give me more money, because they might not ever have it. But that doesn't mean they can't be our best advocate, it doesn't mean they can't help us grow as a company. And I think if you take these approaches and you look at it and you go okay this is what's expected.
Speaker 2:Let's add this, and then let's add this, and then let's add this. I't I send a bottle of champagne to my top like longest term customers? I didn't think of it. But yeah, if they'd gotten something like that, they would have expected that I thought about them and cared about them like I care. That they were a customer you want someone to. If you were the customer, what would you want and what can you do to even be happier?
Speaker 1:yeah, and you see this, uh, one of to. I think it's important and I think a lot of companies are doing this now and um, but celebrating milestones of customers, right, um, depending on what it is that you that you're, that you're selling. But, like you see this a lot and you know a lot of people have negative thoughts about network marketing or MLM type companies, and rightfully so, for different reasons. But, like there's a lot there you could also learn, and one of the things that they do phenomenally is championing, celebrating. Let's go for that, because I'm having Partying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do a great job at celebrating the victories and the wins of of of people, and I think that's so important that you can not only do it for your, for your team, for your employees, but you can do it for your customers too. If you have a business like that and it could just be as simple as like someone finishes the first module of your training in your course, and you know this, the screen goes and the fireworks happen and it just gives you this good feeling of accomplishment. It doesn't have to be these extravagant, expensive things, you know, and if you're, let's say, you have a system that doesn't allow you to have a celebration on the screen, well, you know, when it tracks what people watch and when they complete it, it can send a notification and you could send an email that has a little gif in it that does that. So there's workarounds. You don't don't don't be limited by your technology.
Speaker 1:My point is is just look at these opportunities to to make people feel good in a world where most people don't feel good most of the time. Right, because we have so much going on. Most people, they're so worried about themselves they can't even imagine anybody else, because they're trying to figure out how they're going to pay their next bill or how they're going to afford the field trip for their kid or whatever. You have to understand the majority of people walking around with a lot of stress on their shoulders. So anything you can do to make them feel good, and the more often you can make them feel good, is going to build that experience, build their feelings towards you, the relationship.
Speaker 1:And again, when you meet somebody and you've never interacted with them personally for whatever reason, and they tell you you changed their life, that is a powerful feeling. But you have to understand you have the power as a business owner to do that and you do that by continuously looking. How do we improve beyond the product? They buy the product, service, whatever it is, and there's an expectation Money is exchanged, service is delivered and unless it goes above and beyond that, they're not going to tell other people, They'll just be happy and they could be happy as a client, but they're still not going to shout it from the rooftops.
Speaker 2:No, the only people that do Yelp reviews are either extraordinarily happy with your above and beyond service or they're really pissed off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good point. Most happy people aren't writing, and that's the thing with customer support no-transcript, exactly, and so it's a thankless job. And so that's why it's so important to have these other experiences and then get the feedback from people you know, and people are more likely to leave a positive review or do a case study, testimonial, share their story, if they're not just like neutral on the service and I think about restaurants I go to that have great food but like average service. It's like you go back there but it's not like you're dragging your friends there. When you have a restaurant that just blows you away.
Speaker 1:And you think to yourself, like if I'm say to my wife, hey, let's take sarah and ricky out, like where do you want to go? Like like we're looking at there's certain places to go, yeah, because we know that the experience is there, which means you're immediately going to have a good time and it's going to get everybody's going to be in a better, happier place, like I I'm not saying, hey, we should take, we should go to applebee's. You know applebee's is fine, has good food, but it's not somewhere you go to like have an experience with some, with another, with another, with another family, you know oh, I think macaroni grill is unlimited bread yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:Um, anything else on the trip that surprised you or related to customer service you think we should talk about today.
Speaker 2:I think the handling of your employees the same thing. If you know there's five love languages and you know that your employees at least your top people that you talk to, if you're a five person company or 150, like we are, you still can have those extras for your employees, whether they get, you know, the birthday card or flowers, whether they get you know an additional day off on their birthday or whatever or something else to celebrate They've done an exceptional job. They get granted an extra day off or something. You touch them and the different points that they need it. If it's a local company, maybe their quality time, maybe it's a lunch out with the boss One of those little things you make your employees feel like you've done extra for them.
Speaker 2:It actually makes them stay longer. Your employee retention is changed. It saves you a ton of money. You can spend a little bit of money to show them appreciation and then when they care about their job, they're doing a better job. They're happier at work, just like when your customer's happy with you. They're happy and they're not causing more problems. And more money, more customer service tickets and all this stuff, the more you can do, sure they're excited the employee and the client.
Speaker 1:It goes back and forth. It's a good thing to do anyway. Yeah, I think it has to be a complete culture shift where you just embrace this experience and you think about how do we make all of these experience the best they can be? How do we make the workplace the best place it can be so people want to be here? How do we make our customers, how do we make this experience for our customers the best it can be? And you know, that's one thing.
Speaker 1:The Chipotle CEO, who's now the Starbucks CEO, like he talked a lot about making Starbucks like the place to hang out again. You know, putting a Starbucks inside of Vons while gives people coffee changes the Starbucks experience. There's a book, the Starbucks Experience. So you know, when you change stuff like that, it can have the negative. And then you see what's happening where they have to shut down a whole bunch of stuff, right, and so it is a cultural shift. It's same as core values has to be lived and breathed. But in terms of the return and that's why people struggle with this Cause what's the ROI? Right, it's hard to track how many referrals come from someone that you don't know is telling people. But it's not about that, it's a piss.
Speaker 2:They're going to your competitor.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So like you've already lost them and then the competitor gets them.
Speaker 1:Now they're saying good things about the competitor, bad things about you, you've not only caused the negative cause a ripple of negative versus a ripple of positive, and I know what I would rather have. I'm sure you would rather have the positive too. I'd rather have a present. All right everybody. Thanks so much for listening. Another great episode of Paid to Create.
Speaker 2:We'll see you next time Yay.
