Paid To Create Podcast
Fireside chats with some of today’s best and brightest Creators
Welcome to Paid To Create, a podcast that features insightful conversations with some of today's most successful entrepreneurs and small business owners.
Join us as we delve into the minds of coaches, consultants, agencies, and experts from various industries to discuss their experiences, strategies, and journeys to success.
Our guests have a wealth of knowledge and expertise in their respective fields and will share their insights on what it takes as a creator to build and grow a successful business.
Each episode is a chance to gain practical advice and inspiration from those who have been through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship.
Our goal is to provide valuable insights and actionable tips to help you take your business to the next level.
Paid To Create Podcast
S2E10 Q&A: Building Trust, Crafting Ads, and Managing Teams
In this Q&A episode of Paid to Create, we’re answering your questions on growing your business, mastering marketing, and leading remote teams. We share strategies that actually work, from creating ads that capture attention to managing remote teams without feeling like a micromanager.
We’ll dive into the psychology behind irresistible ads, why authenticity is key in marketing, and how you can connect with your audience on a deeper level. Plus, we discuss how to build real engagement, like showing appreciation to customers without breaking the bank and crafting stories that resonate so deeply, your audience will keep coming back.
Managing remote teams? We’ve got you covered. Learn how to leverage individual strengths, offer flexibility, and keep people motivated—without the burnout. And when it comes to consumer personas, we’ll break down how understanding your audience helps you craft more effective, tailored messaging that stands out, even when you’re catering to polarizing customer segments.
Along the way, we’ll also share lessons from legal and operational mistakes and why having the right advisors can save you from costly errors. We’ll throw in a few productivity hacks, too, for delegating tasks and managing your time more efficiently. And if you’re struggling with low engagement as a content creator, we’ve got tips for staying focused on your creative journey despite the setbacks.
Tune in for practical, no-nonsense advice mixed with a little humor and real stories from our own entrepreneurial journeys. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, this episode is packed with insights you can put into action right now.
Here’s what we cover in this episode:
- What's your favorite way to make customers feel special without breaking the bank?
- What’s your go-to tip for making an ad truly irresistible?
- How do you keep everyone aligned and motivated in a fully remote setup?
- How do you adjust your marketing to appeal to both rule followers and rule breakers?
- What’s one ‘ups’ moment in your business journey that taught you the biggest lesson?
- How do you spot marketing trends before they become mainstream?
- What’s the first system every small business owner should put into place?
- What’s one launch strategy that always works, no matter the industry?
- What’s the secret to crafting a story that customers connect with?
- What’s the number one mistake entrepreneurs make while trying to build trust with their audience?
- What’s your best tip for staying motivated when things get tough?
Listen to - or watch - all episodes of Paid to Create at paidtocreatepodcast.com
And so, when it comes to trust, if there is a moment that just seems unbelievable or doesn't seem quite right or seems like it's embellished, people will unknowingly check out and you lose them. And so I think that's the number one mistake people make is trying to portray an image they think the marketplace wants to see versus who they really are. Welcome everybody to this week's episode of Paid to Create. We've got a little Q&A for you, as always. I'm AJ Roberts and this is Sarah Jenkins Whee, so we're just going to jump right in. We did an episode recently on holiday promotion. Some of the questions are from that. Sarah has some questions. I have some questions, so let's start off, sarah. This one's for you. So let's start off, sarah. This one's for you. Hey, sarah, this is Emma from Austin, texas. I love Austin. You mentioned how important it is to reward loyal customers, especially around the holidays. What's your favorite way to make customers feel special without breaking the bank?
Speaker 2:Well, without breaking the bank, is that caveat? However, I have done custom-labeled Genesis Digital champagne bottles to our top 10 affiliates and then I've sent out merchandise of cards to our webinar jam if they have been our client longer than a year or whatever. We've done a couple little swag promos that everyone gets excited about. You get a hat or a backpack or a notebook or whatever, and people really really do love it.
Speaker 2:The thanks-to-cards we implemented with the thank-you note from you and I back in the day and say hey, thank you so much for buying, and just to say thank you for doing the trial. And then, if they stayed longer than trial, we sometimes followed up with a gift like a pen or a notebook, but otherwise our customers were really happy to even get, let's say, even a personal phone call. I've had a couple of phone calls or emails on Facebook going back and forth saying hey, just want to reach out and say thank you myself, and that then made the most difference was getting the personal connection from me. I get time is money, but when they're your top clients or even you pick some at random to just give them a message yourself from you, that's highly received.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that the caveat of not breaking the bank creates limitations, but I think the mistake is to think that people want gifts or some form of monetary reward, right, and normally that a lot of people they just want the appreciation.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I've done that worked really, really well and I've had other businesses do, is Thanksgiving or Christmas. You just send a card. Other businesses do is Thanksgiving or Christmas. You just send a card, but you include gift cards like $100 gift cards for your business in those. But you say to them this is a time of giving, I wanted to give you a gift that you could pass on to others. So now it's a referral thing. But it's also that you're sending them a thank you, a nice card, which not a lot of businesses are sending Thanksgiving cards. So you kind of stand out at Thanksgiving. Christmas is a little bit more noise, but still a lot of businesses aren't sending out cards. So you get through the trash heap right and they'll put the card up. And then those gift cards, if they have people they think can benefit from it, they can hand them out and so it's a way to actually get referrals as well as saying thank you. So I think hopefully that gives you a few ideas.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I got one for you. Hey, aj, this is Mark from Chicago. You're a master of marketing psychology, agreed? What is your go-to tip for making an ad truly irresistible?
Speaker 1:It all starts. So it depends on what platform you're on Interesting, Because it all depends on what's going to grab their attention first, right? So if you're on like Google and it's just your regular search, there's no images or anything, right? So the first line, the headline, that's obviously the most important piece to pull people in, you got to have a really strong hook. If you're on like Facebook and they're scrolling, or Instagram and they're scrolling like, it's the image, right, and the image has to really capture their attention.
Speaker 1:Now, the mistake that a lot of people make is they try to use a stock image or something like that and while they somewhat work, like typically, if people can tell it's an ad, they they don't necessarily stop, because if they're not in a with Google, someone's searching. So there's an intent, right, Depending on what keyword they're searching for. It could be a buying keyword or it could be like a research keyword. So your ads can really be catered towards that keyword so it aligns with them. And congruency is the most important thing with the advertising. If they see the ad and click through, it all has to be congruent. So you shouldn't have a different image on the landing page than you have in your ad because wait a minute, it's slightly different from a psychological standpoint. The brain pauses, it doesn't seem like it flows through.
Speaker 1:But, in terms, to make an ad really irresistible, you have to pull them in, which is going to be either the headline or the image, and then where does the eye go to next? Right, and every single sentence should create curiosity or a desire to have to continue on on. And you do that with cliffhangers, you do that with open loops. There's lots of different tricks you can do, but what it really comes down to is understanding storytelling and what keeps people on the edge of their seat. Because you want to build up the suspense to the point where clicking through which is usually what an ad's trying to get someone to do it might pre-sell them in the ad, but nobody's buying from the ad. They have to go to another page to purchase right, and so the click is what you're selling, whether it's an email, whether it's an ad, because you run ads in emails, ads on display networks, ads whatever it is they're clicking through.
Speaker 1:And so, when to get that click through, you have to create a big enough desire to know what's on the other side, and most people don't think like that they think about an ad and they think about the product and they don't realize that, like every single thing that goes into the ad from the image to the headline to the body copy has to create this huge, huge FOMO feeling that if they don't continue on, they've missed something. They've missed out on something. And it's why you see a lot of language around secrets and things like that, because people immediately think there has to be something that they don't know Immediately creates an open desire to learn. So that's really the key with the advertising or any marketing in general, is that everything should lead them to the next step. It's like fundamental direct response 101. But even great content writers and I think that we're moving into an era where, arguably, content is direct response, Because even with content writing, if you're writing a blog article and the person's bored after the first few paragraphs, they're not going to finish it. So you have to think about how do you create suspense, how do you create anticipation, how do you create your turning points, emotional roller coasters that take them on a journey, and you really have to think about that and think through it, and each phase leads to the next phase and that's all you focus on is how do I get them to move from here to the next step, to the next step?
Speaker 1:So like, obviously if you go from ad to landing page, then the landing page, you have to get them to the buy button, right. And so most people don't think about that. They'll put a buy button in the middle of a page because they're like oh, it's pretty long, but it's like have you pre-sold enough to get them at that point to want to purchase? If the answer's no and it's why on long form sales letters, oftentimes you won't see a buy button until the very end, Because the assumption is we haven't built the desire if they haven't gone through it. It's why you know VSLs video sales letters we used to do we would not allow the buy button to pop until a certain point in the video because we wanted to force the watching of the video to create all of that desire, to create all of that reason to move forward.
Speaker 1:Now there's different tactics and tricks and obviously, if you're in an industry that is heavily using a certain marketing tool, like a webinar for example, you can't do a traditional webinar because the person on the other end has probably seen a dozen, if not more, of these things. So they know exactly what's coming. So you have to do things different. But in general, general principles know exactly what's coming. So you have to do things different. But in general, general principles, you know. The real key is you got to have a really strong attention grabbing image or headline to pull them in, and then you have to treat every single sentence in the same way. There shouldn't there shouldn't be anything in there that creates confusion, boredom or is just run on where like allows their mind to drift off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, remember we did a couple email opens like and did one like why is the penguin in egypt in the desert? And it's like everybody opened it. I don't know if he led into the reason to click in the email to the product launch or whatever, but he was good at having those attention grabbing headlines. And then the picture was yeah, penguin in the desert using some photoshop or whatever. Um, it's really fun to get that hook.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, All right, what I got for you here. So, sarah Michael from San Diego, oh, oh, no Local hunt you down. Uh, you've worked in teams all around the world. How do you keep everyone aligned and motivated while having a fully remote setup?
Speaker 2:We practice your one-on-ones with your supervisor, but then you go down. So once a month I did let's say I'm talking to my top C-suite right, you know you and I would have our calls or whatever but I pick someone random on your staff to say hey, would you like a call with me Just to say how's it going? Would you like to see something changed? You can tell me it doesn't go anywhere, anywhere. But if I can make a change for you, I'd like to know what that could be, to see if there's any consistency of what people are looking for and stuff on the lower level. So it's kind of reaching out individually.
Speaker 2:We also have Bonusly because we're all remote. So if you have someone that's really good at saying, kristen, I love that customer service email, that was awesome. Here's a teddy bear emoji or whatever you can also, with Bonusly, add stars. You get 300 stars a month to give away. I think that's the limit and then, with those stars that you're gifting, you send an encouraging message and then you turn in those stars in Bonusly for a Starbucks gift card or an Amazon gift card. So you're actually rewarding them in small, little, tiny ways that there's little gifts being given by your coworkers to each other and by you too, to your different staff that you talk to periodically.
Speaker 1:One of the things I'll point out that I have observed you do really really well, because I think it's a skill that you have, that you don't necessarily think about right.
Speaker 1:It's natural to you but, like, you do a really good job of putting the right people in the right places. So one of the things when you look at remote is a true extrovert who needs to be around other people, never fit in the company, and you were really good at recognizing when you were filling roles like is this person independent? Are they somewhat of an introvert, meaning they enjoy alone time Because you're working at home alone and the only connection is Skype or Slack. We moved to right. But we don't want people on there all day trying to talk to people just because they need attention or they need to be a part of something. And so it's interesting because, personality-wise, you're really good at understanding that and I think that that's a key.
Speaker 1:And we did a couple of personality tests uh, wealth dynamics I don't know talent dynamics, which is their one for employees but to really understand, like, who these people are, what are they really good at, what are they not so good at? And you know, beyond the qualifications for the job, do they fit the environment we're in? Because, like, we have no way to do in-person stuff very often. So if there's someone who needs quality, well, we're worldwide, so no.
Speaker 1:Exactly so they're not going to get that need met. So you know, again, I think we've talked about love languages before but, like you know, we did things to try to hit those different marks. Physical, you know, physical touch, that kind of stuff's not possible. Quality time, having those phone calls that we would do building in other, like company events, like I know, during COVID there was a game night and stuff like that that the employees, you know the team, put together for them and whoever wanted to join. We've done little challenge.
Speaker 2:We did a talent show.
Speaker 1:Talent show where we submitted stuff and some of the talents people had was unbelievable. And it just goes to show that if you think remote and you just think, oh, people are going to be working at home, it's going to be normal, no, no, no, there's still an environment, there's still a workspace, they're still setting up the home to be productive and it was all of those things I saw you do and work with. That I think really made the difference. So that's just a little bit from my side which I witnessed you do really well.
Speaker 2:Let's say but we also, when you have an employee that's not doing well in their position, we offer them a different position. We said, okay, you're a supervisor in this chat, Maybe you don't want to manage, Maybe you don't want to keep track of the ticket numbers that people are giving. You know the responses that they're giving, whatever. If you have a different skill, maybe you'd be better in accounting or billing. So we move people around to three or four different positions before saying you know this isn't working for you or us, or you're unhappy, whatever. But if they came to us and said they're unhappy or we noticed that their productivity was failing, we'd say, hey, why don't we try a different position for you? So a lot of our staff, like you said, we're trying to find where they fit best.
Speaker 2:They actually changed roles a couple times and I made that normal. It was like this is not a problem, We'll just put you over here, Make the same amount, or we'll move little more over here. Like there's different things to make our employees really feel seen and heard. And we have just so many gaming I say basement dwelling, like, just like, sit on the computer and play their games. But they're really, really great at this job. So then they get off the job and start playing, and then there's talking to their staff. Still, they're talking to their fellow employees that play the same game. I play the stupid dreamlike game and a bunch of my staff play it and I just found out. I was like, oh no, now we have so much more to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I saw that too and it worked really really well Shared interests, and after a while it seemed as if, oh, this type of person is the right type of person. So you could ask people certain questions during the interview process because you knew that they were more likely to be a gamer. They were more likely to be a gamer, you know. They were more likely to be an introvert.
Speaker 2:You know how good gamers are at communicating online Because that's all they do. If you're in, you know Call of Duty, you're talking to your fellow people you've never met, you've never seen, you don't know their name, you only know their tag, sassy Dazzle, and then you play, but you talk to them all the time so you're chatting. So you get really good at chatting with the nice emoji, the nice punctuation, like you get really really good at those skills. That's what I, that's what I look for in certain departments. Um, we have from ethan, from seattle, washington. You mentioned working with different buyer types, like rule followers, rule breakers. How do you adjust your marketing to appeal to both?
Speaker 1:You have to run different marketing if you're going to appeal Like. You can't be in the gray zone. You have to be in order to really be successful, and you can look at the most successful influencers right now. I'll use Jake Poole versus you, Paul, versus going down the political route, but Jake, Paul and Tyson just arguably had one of the most successful fights on Netflix crashed Netflix. So many viewers At the wrong time.
Speaker 1:Jake Paul is a new boxer who is building his record. He figured out he could build a record by fighting non-boxers, while he's improving and getting paid more money than any real boxer is making, except for, maybe, like the Tyson Furies of the world, right, sure. And so when you look at it, you go, well, why? Well, he is a heel, right. And if you have ever studied WWE pro wrestling, you know entertainment wrestling like you'll see that the Rock was a heel and like people who are very popular, like they're either a heel or a baby face. And if you're a heel, you want people to not like you and so you do things and you create scenarios. So Jake Paul relies on the fact that everybody wants to see him get knocked out.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do.
Speaker 1:That is exactly why people tune in, because they want to see this guy get knocked out.
Speaker 2:His attitude deserves it, fictitious or not.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. My point with that is is, if you have rule breakers and you have people who break rules, they're not going to be attracted to the same thing. And so if you're trying to play in the middle to pull them both in, what you're going to end up with is people who are wishy-washy on the fence. You're not going to get passionate, loyal, raving fans. Now, that doesn't mean you can't serve both people. Right, it might have to be a different brand, it might have to be different advertising, but the reality is is that if you want to successfully attract rule breakers right, you have to be so polarizing to the people that follow rules that you're not going to bring those people in. You know, and it's kind of, you can look at brands that are out there that play these positionings and use these things to their advantage and they don't want to attract the other side, because there's enough people on each end of the spectrum to be very, very successful, and so we'll go back to having multiple brands. Car manufacturers do this all the time. Banks do this. There's not a million banks out there, there's a few banks that have multiple branches Community bank because they want to attract the person who wants to support local and feel safe because their money's right there. And the reality is a community bank is owned by a major bank. Same with the car manufacturers. You know, and I don't know, the different brands and who owns what. But you know Rolls Royce, I believe. I think it's Audi or it's one of the other German companies that own them. But like they don't mix the brands, they acquire a brand and keep it separate because, again, it attracts different people and they know the person who's going to spend $20,000, they'll desire the high end, but the high end buyer doesn't want to be associated with the Kia, right, they want, you know, and it's kind of like you have.
Speaker 1:If we look at supercars, for example, like an entry-level supercar is like a Corvette, but a Lamborghini owner if it was, they don't want. You know Corvette, the brand, what it is, it's like okay, but then there's Lamborghini, right, and it's not the same brand, it's separate, but like a Lamborghini. Only, if that was just a Mercedes or something like that, they would be less likely to want it. And so that's really all you got to think about is how do we attract the right people? And now other people may be attracted to that messaging too, that weren't on your mind in terms of that.
Speaker 1:But again, you have to understand the language that you're going to speak to someone who's a rule breaker versus the language who follows rules is two totally different like conscious levels. You know, and you could kind of like rule followers, people who need the 10 commandments, people who need to know the 10 rules for this the 10. And then rule breakers are people who look at that and go that's all bullshit, none of that matters. And so how do you communicate the same message to people who fundamentally have a different philosophy of life? You really can't, in my opinion and I'm sure I could be proven wrong, because, like it seems like no matter what, there's always a way, but for me it's more.
Speaker 2:it'd be be way more work to try to do one message to suit them both than it would just to separate it well, unless you do the ascension thing, like with gen labs the 29 a month to watch, um, how we do different marketing strategies for anyone that can afford the 29. But then we also have the 10 000 masterminds. So it's like people doing the $29 gen labs do want that information, but they want the mastermind eventually. So it doesn't tie the two. They're different products but the same goal to make the sales right. And I guess yeah, it was funny In Europe there's a lot more Mercedes than there are here, so I make fun of people here. They're Mercedes than there are here. So I make fun of people here like, oh, I have a BMW. It's like because you can't afford a Mercedes, because the Mercedes here are a lot more expensive and in Europe they're probably like nope, nope.
Speaker 1:But I mean, when I was looking at new cars I looked at there's a Mercedes, it's like 120k and I looked at it and the inside is absolutely beautiful, but from the outside it just looked like a Mercedes. So I ended up going with Bentley because from the outside to the inside it was all luxury and it was beautiful. But I really liked a Mercedes. But it was the fact that from the outside there was no distinguishing of value, there was nothing about the look of it that made me think, oh, this is worth that much more from the 25,000 C100 or whatever it is they have.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's something you have to think about in marketing is that oftentimes affluent buyers and this is slightly different than the rule breakers, non-rule breakers, but affluent buyers purposely buy stuff that other people can't because they want to show off in a certain way and there's different levels and there's different standards and it's like when people get to the F, you money, they don't need it. They kind of go basic again. Right, because they don't need anybody. It doesn't matter what people think. But I think that if you're trying to attract rule followers, then they need rules and if you're trying to act rule breakers, they need frameworks.
Speaker 2:So it could be the same product with different messaging. So there's two different messaging, exactly, yeah. Well, you got Christian Carter, ketchum and Keaton or David D'Angelo Double your Dating, same author, but hitting the different markets for the specificity that they needed in that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty fun, exactly All right. Next one's for you. This comes from Jamie in Denver, colorado. In one episode you touched on operations and avoiding legal pitfalls. It's comical.
Speaker 2:It is comical, we did it today.
Speaker 1:What's one oops moment in your business journey that taught you the biggest lesson?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't even know what I'm allowed to say in that one. Well, okay, the one that really kicked me in the head was the VAT tax. We didn't understand that we owed VAT tax and then all the countries started sending me letters. I was like, oh no. So we had to go to every country we've made a sale in and do the proper paperwork and file all the backend taxes. We had to ask for forgiveness on some penalties. Some of them are forgiving, some of them are not. I don't have any I have a certain grudge against or anything, but the ones that made the most amount of money for me gave me the biggest fines. I'm like shoot. So that was a lesson. I learned to be on top of those other rules outside of the country and outside of the state that we're not really aware of, and I didn't think I was even big enough to need to know that stuff. But apparently, the finances going in and out of our SaaS company, we did hit some of those minimum limits, which was nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a real good point, Because even rules are changing all the time, All the time. You know where the fact that you know states are realizing that, hey, these digital companies are selling in our state without collecting state taxes, right? So you had it at the global level, then we had it at the local level in terms of states, and it's like, well, we're not.
Speaker 2:We owe 19 cents to certain counties.
Speaker 1:We're not in that, we're not in this and it's like well, no, but if you have 100 transactions in our state in a year, now you have have to qualify, and so it was like those are things that like I'm sure there's a place you can go look this stuff up, but like hard to find.
Speaker 2:I did my own little tabulation just to see where what I was getting myself into. And then, you know, had our cpa do it for us, because we're like, well, it's just too hard to figure out where the limits are. They're different for every state. Some states don't collect any any tax on SAS and some states do from the minute you started your company, like. So everything is different in rules. So that was the biggest one. For me, that was a shock and surprise.
Speaker 2:The one that impacted our company the most was our operating agreement. When you go into an operating agreement, you need to have the best lawyers you can find to do the contracts in your operating agreement so that it's airtight. If you have a partnership, if you have a spouse of that partner and the partner dies, do you have a buyout agreement already done? Do you have a? Now that spouse is your managing partner? Is that really what you want in the first place? Probably not, especially if they're, you know, a stay-at-home dad or a stay-at-home mom. Like they don't know the company anyway, you don't want them as your newest partner, but they're entitled to those benefits of that ownership. So you need to have those details written out very, very crisp and clear, with no loopholes, which is another thing. To have your tax guy and your business attorney set up mutually to look at that together and make sure you haven't missed anything.
Speaker 1:And it's tough because a lot of times when you go into a partnership you're like buddies or you're, and so you know you have the best intentions. And then you get into these things with lawyers, and lawyers lay out like the worst case scenarios and at the time you're like in your mind you're like this is never going to happen. But like, and those tough conversations give people cold feet, they make awkward conversations because it's like well, now we have to think about scenarios that we weren't thinking about. But the reality is is that with partnerships like you mentioned, you never know. And if someone does pass and all of a sudden their son takes over the company and all of a sudden wants to step in and like, have all this stuff to say and they haven't been involved ever, like and you're the other partner or whatever, like, suddenly you're like, wait a minute. Like, and then you have to try to buy them out and now they want an unreasonable amount, and so now there's a lawsuit, like, and this happens more often than people realize.
Speaker 1:And so you know, I'm not saying that your partnerships are always going to end bad, but the reality is it's like you have no idea what's going to happen and so you need the and that's why you pay in the lawyers. You need them to think through these worst case scenarios and have things on paper because when it, when it comes up, if it comes up, well, you have the answer. You don't have to now. You're not in this, like you know, place of mystery where you're trying to figure it out, and you know lawsuits are happening because they're allowed to happen, because there's nothing there to determine which way it goes. And it's horrible because, again, when you start in a business with someone, or even just a relationship, there's no like thought process that this is going to be the worst thing ever and at some point, and it's going to be like a hell and a nightmare that I have to live through.
Speaker 1:And when they, when the lawyers, write the contracts, they write it like that. So you're reading through going oh my gosh, this is terrible, and you kind of feel like sometimes you're getting the short end of the stick. Or they feel like they're getting the short end of the stick, but it's absolutely necessary because at the end of the day, like you mentioned, death is the big thing you have no control over and you don't know.
Speaker 2:You hope nothing bad happens and it happens to all of us Exactly, eventually, I mean you've lived through it.
Speaker 2:I have, and that's why I actually I don't mind being the boring spokesperson, the poster child for these lawyers and these contracts. I think of lawyers and contracts like insurance. It's just like man. Oh, it's so expensive. Look at all the stuff I've got to think about.
Speaker 2:And that's why you pay, going to do a buyout or, if you don't sell your company, you're going to end up in some of these situations that you're not looking forward to with your partner. If your partner's son steals money out of the business bank, takes the dad's credit card and empties it, guess what? You have to deal with that too, because now you've lost money because of not your partner but his son. There's other people that can touch stuff that you don't even know is coming. So I'm the one that's like, okay, you hate insurance, you don't like it at all. But when your car is totaled or when your house burns down, you're like, oh good, okay, insurance will write me a check and I'll, you know, move in the right direction. So lawyers are the same they'll keep you a out of jail. They'll keep your potential partner hopefully out of jail and they'll keep y'all from suing each other and just losing revenue, losing money and losing love for each other by having those corrections done.
Speaker 2:All right, what about Liam from Tampa Florida? You have shared insights we did about trends like the anti-sales strategy. How do you spot marketing trends before they became mainstream?
Speaker 1:I think my advantage has always been that I never studied one industry.
Speaker 2:That's fair.
Speaker 1:And so I had an early mentor, ryan Lee, and he would come up with stuff and it was like, where did he get this idea from? And then you realize pretty quick that he was paying attention to the porn industry and he always felt like the porn industry was way ahead of like the fitness industry and so he would look at like the way their membership sites were and the way they were delivering content and the quality of the video cameras, and so I can't say I've followed the same path in terms of studying that.
Speaker 1:But what I'm often doing is I'm looking at all the different industries, right, and I'm looking at who's doing what. What's innovative, what's not. Who's leveraging new tools like AI? How are they leveraging them? What could the future be? Is there a way to prepare for that? Now?
Speaker 1:You know, like, for example, two years ago, when video like uh avatars came up, they were, they were not good, and I was like someday they're going to replace the need to stand in front of a camera, but you're still going to need good scripts, right, and so so what's the most important thing? Well, script writing. Well, ai can script write for you, but you need to know the prompt. So, okay, you need to be a really good prompt engineer to get the most out of AI. So, even though the technology wasn't there at the time, it's getting now to the point where people they have AI avatars that are really good, and it's to the point that people are able to clone themselves and it'd be 90% good. Right, there's still some weird manomerisms and stuff that, if you're paying a lot of attention to the video, you'll catch and be like well, that wasn't human-like.
Speaker 2:I love catching them. It's fun.
Speaker 1:But even the voice training and stuff like that, and so when you're paying attention to other industries and how they're using this and how they're using that, then you could pull it over into industry and be one of the first. I have a client right now in the UK I'm not going to say what industry they're in because if anybody's listening, I don't want them to beat us to the mark but we started looking at how could he expand across the whole country and we started digging in. I'm like wait, like none of your competitors are doing these things. And he's like I know. And I'm like this is weird. And at first I was like, well, does this mean it doesn't exist? But there is enough businesses that offer the exact thing he's doing in every single city that we want to target that. I know there must be enough business. They just don't do essentially direct response marketing. And I'm like this is wild. And then he's been teaching other people how to do this, and so I've found people that are doing it. And I come to him and say, oh, I found it. And he's like, oh, that's my client. And I'm like, oh, no wonder why they're doing this stuff.
Speaker 1:So we're building the plan out and he tried before and he had some small things that he did wrong that kind of didn't allow the scale, but that like kind of didn't allow the scale. But that's what you're looking for. Is you're looking for something that doesn't have to be the first time it's ever been done, but is it the first time it's ever been done in your industry? And that's really what we're looking at for trends. And so, when you think about it, if you know and I haven't really ever got into TikTok, but our Ryan Megan, you know, he's arguably the best TikTok creator in the world, or short form video management company in the world.
Speaker 1:But it's because, like, he noticed that this TikTok was a huge trend and so he started getting business people on it and it worked. And so then he, you know, after he got like a million followers for someone, he was like, wait, I might have something here. And it's like he built that up. But it was because he saw that humans were attracted to this very short form, the type of content it was, and he understood the formula. And you know, I think his, his guarantee is like I'll make you go viral in the in 90 days, right, and he does it over and over again, but again it was. He was there at the beginning. He was very good at video, so he understood video and he saw where the trends like what was trending in terms of reels and shorts and that and he was just able to see like I think this will work for businesses.
Speaker 1:You know, right now it's mostly, like you know, comedians and content creators but, like, but I think it will work for, like the standard you know business and it has, and I think that's really the key is, like you've always just got to be paying attention to all the different things and even if just from a perspective of observation, when you're traveling, when you're going places, how are things done?
Speaker 1:What do you not like, what could be improved on?
Speaker 1:It's like very rare that I go to a restaurant that I'm not like analyzing the entire experience and like mentally criticizing them for like dropping the ball on getting more money out of me.
Speaker 1:But you know, it's something that I think if you're, if you're someone who is a marketer or is involved in marketing, you have to like eat, sleep and breathe it and always be looking through the frame of like when you're watching a movie or you're watching a TV show, or you're watching a play or you're at a conference, like always the frame of like you've got the content that's being delivered and then the environment and the framing for that delivery.
Speaker 1:And if you're paying attention through these different lenses, you pick up on these things that are working and you can take it back to your business and so you know if there's a conference that has a hundred thousand people at it and it's in, you know, and it's an educational conference, how they get a hundred000 people there. Well, let's go see, let's go find out and you can learn through observation. So I think that's always been a big advantage for me is I've never, even though I started in the fitness space, I wasn't studying fitness businesses. I was studying other businesses and seeing how they were using marketing, and then my brain was able to go oh wait, we could do this over here.
Speaker 2:Brain was able to go oh wait, we could do this over here. That's what we did too. We started saying direct response marketing. That's in newspapers, from the first newspaper print. It's the same style of marketing, so it works from back then and it works now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, we got more. This is from Riley in Portland, oregon. So I love your. I love your thoughts, sarah, on creating systems to free up time. What's the?
Speaker 2:first system you think every small business owner should put into place. Oh man, usually small, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think it's email for you. You always talk about that one.
Speaker 2:Well, when you think of small, is it like one guy at home with his one product? That is very small. So systems are harder. They're personal systems to get your shit shit done. Um, oh man, yeah, if email is something you have to be doing, you have to get the emails out. You have to do them, whether it's holidays or not. We already talked about that. Um, it's that.
Speaker 2:You know the cart abandon sequence of emails that go out when someone doesn't buy your product the entry email. When you first get the exit pop to get someone to give the email. What is their gift or whatever they're giving you their email. You want to retouch them. Thank you for blah blah blah. You have to have all of that right now and all of that plans. If you don't have it planned, you're going to have a week. You don't feel like writing emails. You can't do it every week. So if you have those six months or whatever, or even three months of out two or three times this week, these are the headlines, these are the sales it's going to lead to or this is the bottom line of the email, if it's even just informative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that is the best thing that a small business owner could do for their company. I think probably knowing how to rank your to-do items in terms of what's going to produce revenue for your company is a system that I would highly recommend people figure out, because most people will create a to-do list and nine out of 10 things on that list are just operational busy work that doesn't Easy.
Speaker 2:You can check it.
Speaker 1:It's really fun, Well it might not be easy, but it doesn't produce revenue, it doesn't produce an ROI, it doesn't produce cash flow, and the reality is is without that your business won't survive. And so the first thing you should be doing every day, in my opinion, is customer acquisition. And customer acquisition it's not just getting a new customer, it's getting a new customer and then reselling your old customers, right, because at the end of the day, if someone's already purchased from you and you give them good stuff, right, let's assume that you're actually giving value, like, why would they not buy something else from you? And so, customer acquisition, you're getting new customers. And then you're keeping people you have, especially if you have a subscription or a software or something like that, and most people will do nothing for that, and so the day will go by and then the next day they're going. Well, we didn't make any money yesterday.
Speaker 2:Weird.
Speaker 1:And so I think that if most people started their day and so they had a personal productivity system and the beginning of that is what am I doing to get new clients, or keep or sell to old clients Like their business? Everything else can be outsourced when it's needed so that they can have a system for outsourcing. But it's easier to outsource your bookkeeping than it is to try to do your bookkeeping when you have no clients, I know right.
Speaker 2:But once you do have the clients, the thing that I did that maximized my business potential the most is I got a virtual assistant. I do not do emails. It's really funny. Some people make fun of me. They're like what kind of CEO doesn't do emails?
Speaker 1:I'm like this one A lot, a lot more, a lot more than people realize.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's a waste of your time. What are you going to answer? What are you going to say? Now you're taking your creative brain that began with your entrepreneurship and you're making it look at emails and respond to things that, frankly, don't necessarily need a response. And if you have a virtual assistant telling you these are three things you have to do today, here's the two things, if you're feeling productive to get done, and here's the three things you have to do tomorrow, so you might as well get them done today if you can. Having someone just pinpoint stuff for you that you need to get done to make your business more profitable, like, get that off your plate. So your creative brain is going.
Speaker 1:It also stops you going down the rabbit hole with just noise that isn't necessary, right, like if you have an email that doesn't need an immediate response, but you open it, you start reading it Now.
Speaker 1:your brain is still thinking about it, versus, if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:It's funny because when I went to Necker Island, that was something I observed with Richard Branson was he had his assistants and they would print his emails out the ones that he needed to respond to sit with him, he would dictate to them what to do and then after like two hours they would disappear and he was done, and so he was able to essentially get through email without ever opening a computer.
Speaker 1:Right Now I don't know if that's because of his dyslexia and it's just easier for him to do it that way, or if it's an efficiency thing, but it dang seemed efficient to me to basically similar to what you're saying. They probably didn't have all of his emails, they probably had what was most important, what needed to be responded to today, and they sat with him, got his answers, went away and did what they needed to do, and for him it was just two hours of focused work without ever having to go, you know, get off track or be distracted by something you're not supposed to look at, cause even the fact of not having to open the computer is a huge productivity boost If you just thinking about what needs to be done, because, like, it's really easy to like see an ad or see a message. Click through, pay attention, watch a vsl. You know, look at, look at something on facebook scoot over to youtube.
Speaker 2:It's super personal. Sarah, we know you love legos, so you think you might love our bookkeeping.
Speaker 1:I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa so all of those things like even from the standpoint because I had a lot of people who use social media, like DMs and stuff for business now but like, how many times you just go on and look at your DMs versus like looking at the newsfeed or the messages or the notifications, right, so it's like a way to eliminate the distractions and just focus on what works, and I think that for a lot of people, that's really the key to success is eliminating the distractions.
Speaker 2:It's huge when I get the. Here are the 10 emails you got, even if they're like a spam from you know Harry and David chocolates or whatever, I can just be. Here's number one, it's that advertising and go. Number one delete, unsubscribe and I'll never see it again. Okay, number two respond this paragraph or whatever, and then then it's written all like she does the greatest job, right, but everything is just done, done, done, done, done, and I don't have to think about it. I'm very decisive. So I get that that that done, and I don't open my computer. It's not opening, clicking unsubscribe, going unsubscribe, click done, then delete it.
Speaker 1:Then, whoa, that's just such time suck yeah, I think that's probably the number one thing especially ceos deal with is just time vampires that are just sucking up all their creativity, all of their thinking time.
Speaker 2:Yep, time is money, but when your creative brain that made you an entrepreneur in the first place is shut down and just degraded by just doing six hours of emails, like on a Monday, because you got them all weekend, it doesn't help anyone that you do that. What about Julie from Phoenix, arizona? You worked on so many product launches. What's one launch strategy that always works, no matter the industry? I know it's a good question.
Speaker 1:I mean, the truth is a launch only works if there's a buildup to the launch. I think the thing that always works is if you have a bunch of affiliates. I think that's probably the hardest thing for new people with launching is that oftentimes they don't have the support. And the thing with a launch is a lot of times when you have enough people saying that this is something they should go purchase, enough people saying that this is something they should go purchase, and a shoe you're, you could assume that multiple people are on multiple lists. And so when there's this like moment in time where everybody seems to be saying, like you got to go get this thing, it's so good, that is what drives the success of a launch and and I've seen launches go where, like affiliates didn't, because it's like a long launch right, two weeks or something like that, and we'd call it the W right You'd get sales when you first opened and then you didn't get any. And then you'd get sales in the middle and usually cause you would do an event or something, bonuses, and then it would tail off and then the last day you'd get the most sales because the cart was closing A lot of times. Like affiliates stop promoting in the beginning because they didn't want to be promoting your product for two weeks. So it's a big ask, right, and so they're planning to do one drop or maybe a couple of drops, but, like, if you can get them all to buy in and you have to create a lot of reason for them and incentive for them to do it. I think that's the one thing that has I've seen.
Speaker 1:Work for every launch is, if you have affiliates, it doesn't even matter if anybody knows who you are. Even you have your own list. I mean, my first product launch was my own product and you know, I made like $40,000. I had no list, it was just all from affiliates. Now, I didn't get to keep much of that because it was all from affiliates, um, but, like, I had a successful launch because of the affiliates, and I think that that's probably something that a lot of people don't spend enough time thinking their head about.
Speaker 1:And you know, if, if you don't have any relationships with people, you got to start thinking an hour out. How do I build relationships with the people that are going to promote me? Like, where are they? Like, what events do they have? Do they have their own events? Can I go meet them? Can I go talk to them? Am I a successful student of their product where I've given them a case study testimonial so they do know who I am because I'm someone who's taken action, and so there's a lot of ways you have to think about it.
Speaker 1:But that's really what I believe is where your best energy is spent for your especially for a first launch is on building the right promotional network to put your message out there for you, and it's um something that a lot of people you could do all of the, the, the product launch formula, stuff without affiliates and you won't have hardly any success unless you have a big list of your own that you really build an amazing relationship with. Um JV. Affiliates are the thing that make. They're really the gasoline that you add to the fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, our first product launch. Yeah, we went to some of the top people in our industry and asked if they would be willing to promote and we would also promote for them and vice versa, and kind of sharing lists at that point, which helps everybody if your products are different and complimentary. Yeah, okay, one more for you and then we've got a couple for I guess both of us. We could take turns. Sophie from Atlanta, georgia, you talked about the power of storytelling in building a brand. What's the secret to crafting a story that customers connect with?
Speaker 1:I think the most powerful stories you have are the journey that you've taken. Right, if we use the hero's journey and if you don't know what that is, just Google, search it, uh, and look at the images. But if you, if you, if you look at the hero's journey, there's usually a call to action, um, or call to adventure, and then a refusal of the call. And so if you think of we use dieting, it's the easiest thing for me to think off the top of my head, but, like most people know they need to lose weight. They lose a little weight and then they give up and they go right back to where they were and they'll do this yo-yoing thing for years and years and years, and then there's usually a moment that they get serious and that they hire a mentor. Now, the mistake that most people make when they hire a mentor is they think that the mentor is going to do everything for them and really the mentor's job is to help them navigate the war path they're about to walk on right. You're about to go through a mass of ups and downs and a complete roller coaster of battles that you have to face, and the mentor, really the reason they're so powerful is they've gone through this before and so they can help you navigate to get to the other side.
Speaker 1:Those are the stories that resonate with people, because your journey positions you as the mentor, as the person who's gone through it, and your gift back to the world is how you achieve this.
Speaker 1:So you know, we use weight loss, but if you're someone you know, like who is 200 pounds overweight, and you lose the 200 pounds and then you gain it back and then you lose it and then you gain it back and then like, maybe not not gaining 200 at a time, but like you're losing significant amounts of weight and then finally you lose it and you keep it off, well, what's the difference? That's the magic gift you have to share. And so the story that they resonate with is if they see you just like them and understand that you've gone through that, like they're going to be way, they're going to lean in harder, they're going to have a greater trust, they're going to connect emotionally more with you because your stories are going to be the same as their stories, but you're just on the other side. For those that like and I don't recommend this, but there is a lot of people who serve industries that they don't necessarily have those personal stories with Um, but they have clients, and so it's the client stories that are the most powerful stories.
Speaker 2:Like doctors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the, because the client is the person that the, the, the client who's gotten the results is the person they want to be, and so that's where the most power comes from is in literally sharing that path through and the understanding, the emotion that person went to.
Speaker 1:If you're a male who is trying to work with post-pregnant females, well, at some level, from a subconscious standpoint, that woman is looking at you like you have no idea what it's like to be a woman, have a baby. How are you going to help me? And so the only way you overcome that is if you have a bunch of people you've helped, right, and so those are the stories you tell. Whereas if you're a woman who, who did go through that, suffered postpartum, like, had a bunch of weight they gained, lost it all, kept it all off, has the confidence back, is a great mother, like moms who are going through this stuff, or who have lost themselves, you know they had the baby a year ago and they're still holding the baby weight. Like, they resonate and are drawn towards your stories because they know you know exactly where they were.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm trying, okay, but once the baby is three, I think it's just my weight at this point.
Speaker 1:But you know what I'm saying? Right, the people you connect with are the people that have the stories that are where you were and then they're where you want to be.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but actually this is going to be a weird sort of pivot to your beautiful wife, jenny. She talked to me about my goals and she's super, super fit. I'm very strong. I really admire her. She's got the two kids too. She's had kids. She understands what you've got extra baby weight after that baby You're not proud of you, don't like you wish you could snap it off. But she took me down the science route. She's like okay, let's do all of these chemical tests. Let's take your, your blood, your urine, your spit, let's look at every part of your body and see where it's failing. Where in your body aren't you? If you're on these diets and they're not working for you, if you're exercising this way, why isn't it working for you? And it came down to like cortisol levels and stress and stuff like that. It's a big surprise, but I liked her scientific approach.
Speaker 2:So I'm like the science is going to show you these things. I'm like, okay, that I will do.
Speaker 1:And then she touched me and the trust is there, because I've seen her do it herself.
Speaker 2:And I like that she did the whole time I was on the vitamins she gave me and those energy things that helped me a lot just start to lose weight and start to understand why I wasn't and where my body was failing because of these habits, these sleep habits, these stressors, whatever. She coached me the whole time, holding my hand, she's like how have you done this week? Did you take your? Her? Science was, like I said for doctors If you're not the client, then your clients will be your biggest testimonial.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah, you want to answer a few more? Wrap it up.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is actually a good one. This is sort of almost like a cheese and whiskers question. Aj and Sarah, this is Bella from New York, New York. You've both talked about building trust with your audience. What's the number one?
Speaker 1:mistake entrepreneurs make while they're trying to create that trust?
Speaker 2:Lying, wow, yeah, I was going to say anytime you use the word, I'm super transparent about this thing, but then you're not, or you're not allowed to be for whatever reasons. You've lost the trust immediately.
Speaker 1:This will sound woo-woo.
Speaker 2:Probably.
Speaker 1:But everything is energy, right, plain and simple and, while you might say something, there is an energetic connection between you and the viewer, the person on the other side, whether it's in person or through the camera, and they can often tell if you're bullshitting. Now they might not know why they don't trust you, they might not know why they're questioning what you're saying or they don't want to move forward or why they don't want to engage. But they don't, and oftentimes it the the, the thing you wrote or the video you've made. There is just something that like isn't right and they can't consciously recognize it, but it's kind of like people who can read body language when they observe someone I'm not nervous, they know yeah, and I remember I got this is this is gonna be.
Speaker 1:This is funny. But I got. When they observe someone, I'm not nervous, they know. Yeah, and I remember I got this is this is going to be. This is funny. But I got stopped at an airport by DEA because I had gotten a big bonus and then I booked a flight the next day one way ticket, and then I went to two other cities on one way tickets and then flew home. And so I guess, when you get a deposit in your bank account greater than $10,000 and you simultaneously then book airline tickets, like the day before you fly, they assume that maybe there's like stuff going on, right.
Speaker 1:So this undercover agent walks up to me it looks like a street thug, flashes his bag, a badge, and then a cop comes up like uh, in uniform, comes up with right behind him and he just starts asking me questions and he does not take his eyes off me and I'd done nothing wrong. So I'm answering the questions and like I'm clueless, like to the fact that he's reading my body language, but at one point I remember kind of looking over and like thinking and then looking back and he had not taken his eyes off me and I realized he was reading me and all of a sudden he just goes okay, so you're free to go, and I go, that's it. He's like yep, you're free to go. And of course you're like you know, I was nervous the whole time but I'd done nothing wrong. There was no, you know, there was nothing that the drug enforcement agency had on me. But it was the weirdest experience ever because he was paying no attention to my words, he was just watching my body language and as soon as he realized that clearly he could tell I had done nothing, it was like okay, so you're free to go because he had nothing.
Speaker 1:And so there is people who are trained in this, but most people not trained in it, but they still subconsciously pick it up. And it's the same thing when you write copy, like if there's a moment of pause, a moment of confusion, like you lose them. And so when it comes to trust, if there is a moment that just seems unbelievable or doesn't seem quite right or seems like it's it's embellished people, people will unknowingly check out and you lose them. And so I think that's the number one mistake people make is trying to portray an image they think the marketplace wants to see versus who they really are. And it's like the reality is. Is that you're like there's not much you can do. That can destroy a brand. I mean look at Snoop Dogg, look at Martha Stewart can destroy a brand. I mean look at Snoop Dogg, Look at Martha Stewart.
Speaker 2:What a team.
Speaker 1:Look at.
Speaker 2:Unexpected.
Speaker 1:So many people who have had like Kim Kardashian have had moments that people would be terrified of Going to jail, having a sex tape leaked. These kind of things make people this gives people nightmares to get exposed like that. But did it hurt their brands? No, because they owned it. They didn't run from it, they didn't try to hide it, they just owned it and move forward At the end of the day. Those probably aren't the greatest examples, it's just what came to me.
Speaker 1:But the truth is humans are very forgiving and they don't expect people to be perfect, and the only people who seem to struggle are the people who try to continue the lie, you know, try to pretend that it's all there. And it's like I mean even to the point, like Tiger Woods. Now, obviously he had a severe accident and has never quite made it back to where he was, but even after what transpired, with his wife and him being a womanizer if anybody hasn't watched his I think it's a four-part documentary HBO did kind of stems from his father and what he witnessed growing up and you kind of realize like, oh okay, this will make sense, but from a brand standpoint, even after that, he bounced back. Before his injuries he bounced back, kept his sponsorships because he didn't shy from it. Right, I'm a flawed human. He came out and that's really, I think, the thing we're scared of most is our secrets being exposed. But if you actually look at some of the most powerful brands out there, like all of their secrets have been exposed. There's nothing left to hide.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome to the internet. If you have children, you have no secrets. They're putting it out on the TikTok, they're telling all their best friends, they're screenshotting and telling everyone because it's really interesting. It's in your house.
Speaker 1:I have zero secrets. Yeah, the future is interesting with social media and the amount of data they probably have on individuals from the age of like 14, 16, 18, you know, I'm sure everybody has a picture they regret sending or a comment they regret saying or a tweet they regret making. But you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if we go back to the stupid first podcast at United, we had some really incredible great interviews, but I had a lot more of that baby weight we talked about and I don't like him at all. I'd like to delete them and forget it ever happened, but well there's probably a technology coming soon that we can just edit just like slim, yeah, yeah ai will have that I can learn editing better.
Speaker 2:You know, I just can't edit anything I don't know. Um, all right, and then I mean this one's a little bit tricky. Aj and Sarah, this is Olivia from Miami Florida. You shared a lot about building and maintaining momentum. What's your best tip for staying motivated when things get tough?
Speaker 1:It's kind of a vague but a little bit tricky question. I think movement is the key right. So most of the time when we lose momentum, we lose confidence, so we stop doing the things that work or we stop putting ourself out there, because the things that you've got to get moving and momentum builds. It's like a small pebble rolling down a snowy mountain right, like eventually it builds and builds and then it's a huge ball and you've just seen that in cartoons and stuff, get out of the way.
Speaker 1:But like, if that rock never rolls, then the momentum never builds. And I think that a lot of people, you know they'll post a video and they'll get like two likes on it and they'll post another video and they'll get zero. And then they'll post another video. They get five likes and they see that as like no momentum and what they miss is that seven people have liked their videos right. And so I had a uh, a friend who, um, I was like hey, you got to start making videos Like you. Just you have to.
Speaker 1:And so he's doing long form and short form, and his long form videos were getting like no views on YouTube. And so I'm like just cut them up and do shorts. And um gave him one of the softwares that I used. That makes it really easy. And so he started posting shorts and he'll have videos that get zero views and then he'll have videos that get 500 views, 600 views.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, imagine in 10 years if you're getting views now with no audience, imagine in 10 years what you'll get. And so a lot of times people think of momentum in a very short time frame a week, two weeks but you have to spend it out and say if I'm going to dedicate my whole life to this right, and the reality is is 10 years seems to be about the right timeframe for people to go from unknown to overnight success. Be willing to stick for it for 10 years, and so when your motivation gets low, you have to just continue to operate regardless of your thoughts, feelings and emotions, and it's the hardest thing, but it's like one of those things that you got to figure out ways to not get in your own way.
Speaker 2:That was actually a really good question for you, since you're always pushing, challenging yourself and doing other different things. It's very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a good place to wrap up. Yeah, We've answered a lot of questions we have. If you do have questions, please send them in comment. You know we love to answer them and we'll be back again with another episode very soon. All right, everyone.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
